Grooving with scales

jsllim · #1 07-02-2009, 07:13 PM

The other day I saw a great bass player who was just plain groovin. I asked him how he can groove and play so well, in response all he told me was scales! Now my question is I know some scales but I can never groove with them and come up with badass lines, does anybody play I guess patterns when it comes to scales to groove. Example being like u only play certain notes, or you play certain notes after or before another, or is it just experimental in the sense whatever sounds good. Sorry for the noob question I was just wondering!

-J

Asher S · #2 07-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Yes- arpreggios, interval patterns, 3/4/5/6 note runs etc etc.

Have a look at this video, especially around 2:00, 3:40, and 6:37:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILMHq_yZ7Hs

OmegaBass16 · #3 07-03-2009, 07:47 AM

I practice major scales in all 12 keys all over the fretboard, and for the life of me, I find it
difficult to come up with musical or bassass lines. I would love to make this happen, if nothing else to make practicing and memorizing scale degrees more interesting. Any ideas,
pattern(s) suggestions ?

HogieWan · #4 07-03-2009, 08:06 AM

use the scale of the key you are in to start, but focus on the chord tones (arpeggios ) of the chord that is being played right now.

Learn your favorite basslines and figure out what scale is being used and which note of the scale or chord is being used for each part.

BassChuck · #5 07-03-2009, 09:07 AM

Play your favorite lines in all keys.
Play the first 3 notes (or 2 or 4 or whatever)... stop, think of some line that could use those notes.... play the line. Do that in all keys.
Groove on some rhythm on each note.
Learn to think in Tetrachords (groups of four notes) A "C" scale is a C tetrachord followed by a G tetrachord. Do search on this concept if you don't know about it.

EADG mx · #6 07-03-2009, 10:17 AM

Jeff Berlin had an interesting point to make about scales and how people practice them in one of his threads here. He stated that one of the reasons he discourages use of the metronome is that some things are better practiced out of time, especially scales. Being able to play a scale in 8th notes at a fixed tempo actually doesn't make a lot of sense in considering that scales are a harmonic device and the point of studying scales is to evaluate the tonality.

Jeff recommends that you practice scales as slow as you want, and try playing sequences and emphasizing all of the tones separately. I don't know about Jeff but I do this with a drone. So for ex. you can set up a drone to play a chord, then play the root, 3rd, 5th, 7th (chord tones), and then experiment with various extensions (2nds/9ths, 4ths/11ths, 6ths/13ths).

It's not about grooving on a scale, it's about learning how scales sound so that when it comes time to play a groove you know what notes you want.

kesslari · #7 07-03-2009, 10:29 AM

For an opposing point of view to Jeff - Victor Wooten had an interesting point. He said that since our main function is to groove, we should groove all the time, and whatever you practice, make it groove! This has been a great tip for me - when I play scales or modes or arps, I have a drum machine going and groove with them. Much of what creates "groove" is how the notes are articulated, so the same scale or exercise, played in time at the same tempo, can sound different if I play it and make it groove with a Samba, or Soca, or Funk, or ....
It's been a gamechanger.

hleach · #8 07-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Two things I have been noticing in my own battle with this problem are rooted in one thing from what I can tell.

Practicing scales up and down one note at a time taught me to play one note then another and in a linear fashion. Even with rythmic variation, this can murder a line.

First, I have been focusing on riding the note I am on a little instead of charging right on to the next... Great article and exercises by Adam Nitti regarding this in the May '09 Bass Player on page 58.

Second, randomly bouncing around a scale typically sounds terrible. I have noticed a lot of lines that I really love tend to bounce back and forth to a single note. Under the Bridge by The RHCP comes imediately to mind. Keep in mind it doesn't have to be the root of the scale you are playing and that you can create motion by using one note and then moving to another for awhile. It can almost be like a secondary tonal center.

OmegaBass16 · #9 07-04-2009, 04:40 PM

"Scales should not sound empty and dry. They should sound musical. If you arent interested in them, work with them until you do become interested in them."

note: a borrowed quote.

oi_pride · #10 07-04-2009, 04:52 PM

to me scales teach you how the notes work in a given mode and that can give you a good basis for a line. but mostly i just play and see what sounds well together, sometimes i find out later that i was splicing scales together.

oi_pride · #11 07-04-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaBass16

I practice major scales in all 12 keys all over the fretboard, and for the life of me, I find it
difficult to come up with musical or bassass lines. I would love to make this happen, if nothing else to make practicing and memorizing scale degrees more interesting. Any ideas,
pattern(s) suggestions ?

try the blues scale, or the pentatonic scale. also major scales are fine but there are numerous others to select from. or you can try to play a major scale into a minor scale.

scales aren't going to teach you how to come up with badass lines, there just there to teach you how to put the notes together, and improve your fingering technique and dexterity.

OmegaBass16 · #12 07-04-2009, 05:32 PM

oi pride, I do practice other scales but I'm sure I haven't practice playing a major scale into
a minor scale. Could you direct me in that direction ?, someplace that shows the fretboard
with this information on it. Thanks in advance !!

oi_pride · #13 07-05-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmegaBass16

oi pride, I do practice other scales but I'm sure I haven't practice playing a major scale into
a minor scale. Could you direct me in that direction ?, someplace that shows the fretboard
with this information on it. Thanks in advance !!

here is a link to a site that has a bunch of scales.
http://www.angelfire.com/id/bass/

all scales are made up of notes just find the notes that are the same and follow that into the next scale so you can piece them together. also a lot of scales are similar as far as the notes and patterns are concerned. so if you play a major scale in A then you can play a minor scale in A, same key, when the major gets to the octave start the minor or reverse it.
you can come up with all kinds of patterns just playing a major scale with open strings and fingered strings just play around. also you don't have to play all the notes of the scale. the blues scale is a minor pentatonic with a few more notes. now the major pentatonic depending on how you play it is a common walking bass line. it's not what you play but how you play it.

OmegaBass16 · #14 07-06-2009, 04:30 AM

oi pride, much thanks for that link !!

N.F.A. · #15 07-06-2009, 04:35 AM

Is there a book or dvd you would recommend on this topic, scales and grooving, I mean? It's always nice to get other perspectives..
G.

yamark · #16 07-06-2009, 05:07 AM

I don't know how much this hurt me or helped me, but coming from a jazz trumpet background, I was a scale freak. When I first picked up bass, I refused to learn any song until I learned all my scales. The good point of this is that I know my bass notes very very well and can improvise and compose quite well. The bad point of this is that it took me years to find that bass groove. Still to this day, I have to work at finding a good groove with certain rhythms.

dvh · #17 07-06-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

For an opposing point of view to Jeff - Victor Wooten had an interesting point. He said that since our main function is to groove, we should groove all the time, and whatever you practice, make it groove! This has been a great tip for me - when I play scales or modes or arps, I have a drum machine going and groove with them. Much of what creates "groove" is how the notes are articulated, so the same scale or exercise, played in time at the same tempo, can sound different if I play it and make it groove with a Samba, or Soca, or Funk, or ....
It's been a gamechanger.

Yep - check my sig.

ubado · #18 07-06-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oi_pride

here is a link to a site that has a bunch of scales.
http://www.angelfire.com/id/bass/

Great link ... Thanks!
It sure beats the hell out of the ol' Mel Bay wall chart.

After years of staring at that wall chart ... I always found the scales to all mix together in my head. This site's scales are super simple to read and remember. Finally after all the years of playing ... I can finally know/remember more than just a chosen few.

( ... it's never to late to know your scales )

jrklmx(Andrew) · #19 07-06-2009, 10:31 AM

Listen to songs that groove.
This song is just a C blues scale.
The meters rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HVFZtfTKJQ

oi_pride · #20 07-06-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.F.A.

Is there a book or dvd you would recommend on this topic, scales and grooving, I mean? It's always nice to get other perspectives..
G.

bass guitar for dummies is a good book and it comes with a cd that lets you hear how the bass is being played. it goes through different stlyes and shows you different grooves in that style, and it comes with a sheet that has the scales on it.