Guitar for bassists/Bass for guitarists

[thecapm]

Is it a coincidence that so many great bassists like Jack Bruce and Paul McCartney also knew guitar? The more I think about it, the better of an idea it sounds to learn how to play some guitar.

I'm what many of you would probably consider a beginner, I've been playing for only 5 months. I know a ton of guitarists and I'm just getting to the point where I'm a better bassist than them. What I mean by this is is that before they would be able to pick up my instrument and show me up in playing ability just because they knew how to play guitar. These occurrences have slowed and I'm starting to be able to jam a little bit.

The reason I want to be able to play guitar is mostly so that I can recognize the chords the guitarist is playing. I don't have any natural music talents like perfect pitch and rhythm, so I have to find other paths to make up for this. The metronome has been a simple remedy for my former rhythm problem, but not being able to identify notes is a much more difficult problem to solve. I am so inept in this area that if you gave me an A to tune my third string by I couldn't do it. Or, at least, it takes me a while and I'm unsure enough with my tuning that I need to ask someone else for their opinion. I feel that if I could recognize the chord the guitarist it playing by their finger pattern I could bust out my arpeggios and deliver some decent bass lines.

What I would like to see discussed here is two-fold:

a. Should I pick up guitar for the reasons above? Or is there a better solution?

b. What is it about guitar that gives one some basic bass skills? Is there anything about bass that would give one some basic guitar skills?

[Drifta]

I started playing bass with no intent on playing keys or guitar.

As my knowledge of bass grew, i found that i needed to learn more about chords, and since my dad plays guitar i naturally picked it up and started learning chords to the songs i could play on bass. this is a great thing, On bass you NEED to know chords.you need to know how to tie your part in with the rest of the rhythm section. learning chords on other instruments, but more importantly the chord tones will help.

Personally i think all bassist should have a acoustic guitar(cheapest, most convienent solution) and a cheapie keyboard. even if you dont got much use for it right away you will find ways to implement it/create ideas with it.

to help awnser your qs:

i think you should get a cheapie acoustic. dont gotta spend lotsa $ you know unless u want. it will help you learn chords. Knowledge of the fretboard translates from guitar to bass, so naturally any expeirenced bassist or guitarist can at the very least pick up the other instruments and be able to voice chords and chord tones. sounds like to me you just need to really work on fretboard knowledge.

so, for instances if u had a guitar, you could pick out a easy chord progression like, G major to C major and get the strumming/timing down.

then keep that rhythm in your head, like you can still hear it. pick the bass up, first you need to know the chord tones, for any major chord(in our case G and C) this would be, the 1st(root) , third and 5th degree (G- G,B,D ---- C- C,E,G)... these notes will be the strongest. same with minor chords which are the same intervels except for the third being flat. this is a good starting point for starting to figure out some songs, but you must know your Minor and major scales!

[agreatheight]

+1 to getting an acoustic. Great for learning the basics / chords. Plus, you won't need an amp AND your technique won't be able to hide behind distortion.

[GianGian]

Play both. Get a cheap acoustic as somebody said. I started on drums, then bass, then guitar, then vocals, then keyboard. The more instruments you play, the more you will see music as a big picture and not just as basslines, or as chords, or as drumbeats, etc.
That being said, you can learn a lot about chords on bass, I basically knew everything I know now about chords before I started playing the guitar.

[MarkTAW]

I play guitar. I play bass 10x better than I play guitar, but I play well enough to accompany myself while singing, and I know a few dozen song. I enjoy playing my acoustic & singing. Try that with a bass.

[crackalackin]

Having an acoustic will lend itself to playing rhythm and open up strumming patterns. Knowledge of the strumming patterns used will give you ideas on how to complement them. Also, I can't help but attempt to sing along when strumming a couple chords. It is another great way to get plugged into the music and see what goes into to making a song what it is and a band who they are.

[James Hart]

I started lessons on bass because I wanted to be a bassist... local guys were all old country or straight jazz, I wanted rock, power trio / prog stuff. I switched to guitar (just for lessons) so I could figure out how to play like Geezer, Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, etc.

I also played sax a few years before bass and then concurrent to it. Recently I started a little piano.

Bass is a tool of expression. The more tools you can use, the more you can express yourself.

[anthowl]

when you play chords on guitar it emediately shows several other notes that are playable in that key, bass doesnt realy offer that same thing as a starting instroment.(and i don't want any replies about bass chords, you know what i mean)

also theres the reach thing. bass frets are further apart so if you have got the finger stretch working on guitar and then switch to bass it's a more natural progression than going from further stretch to everything being smaller distance apart.
also if your using guitar strings first you can build up a colloues slower so you've already got padding when you move onto bass rather than straight up shredding your fingers on bass strings.

[dj150888]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

I enjoy playing my acoustic & singing. Try that with a bass.

I play bass and sing quite regularly! Took me a while to get used to it but now I've no problems.

Back on topic, I only play a small bit of guitar, 10 full songs at best, a few riffs and some chords for messing around, I'm by no means a guitar player, though I found once I started playing, my understanding of how bass integrates with guitar works. I went from a solid but rather boring bass player to a much more interesting player just from bits of knowledge I picked up from guitar.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by dj150888

I play bass and sing quite regularly! Took me a while to get used to it but now I've no problems.

Back on topic, I only play a small bit of guitar, 10 full songs at best, a few riffs and some chords for messing around, I'm by no means a guitar player, though I found once I started playing, my understanding of how bass integrates with guitar works. I went from a solid but rather boring bass player to a much more interesting player just from bits of knowledge I picked up from guitar.

Fair enough, though what I'd intended was to have the full chordal accompaniment for each song. I guess you could muster that on bass too, but that's not really the primary purpose of the bass.

+1 for seeing how the bass fits with a guitar better. You should probably pick up drums for the same reason, if your neighbors won't complain anyway... I hear Rock Band is pretty good for drumming.

[dj150888]

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Fair enough, though what I'd intended was to have the full chordal accompaniment for each song. I guess you could muster that on bass too, but that's not really the primary purpose of the bass.

+1 for seeing how the bass fits with a guitar better. You should probably pick up drums for the same reason, if your neighbors won't complain anyway... I hear Rock Band is pretty good for drumming.

I agree with you 100% about the drums, you can't lock in with a drummer well if you don't know how drumming works, I've only around 9months experience drumming from when I loaned a drumkit. I luckily had some understanding neighbours but if theres enough spare cash there, an electric drumkit would be a very sensible investment.

[Elemeninki]

I take bass lessons and teach myself guitar at home and have found it useful to know


Admittedly the only reason I play guitar is because it was a kick ass shape ( ESP explorer) and was going cheap. But it has helped a lot.

[thecapm]

Originally Posted by dj150888

you can't lock in with a drummer well if you don't know how drumming works,

I'd argue that you can, by using a metronome or drum machine while you practice.

But drumming does interest me, I've got a close friend who's a percussionist so I could get some tips from there.

[dj150888]

If you're getting used to the metronome/drum machine, you might be sorting your timing out etc etc. but I think "locking in" to a groove with a drummer is a level up from that, being in time is fine but how you accent your notes, where you accent them and the sort. You can only do so much with a metronome or drum machine IMO.

[dvh]

Great comments above. I find knowing guitar helpful in new song/jamming situations. I watch the rythym guitar player's fretting hand to see what chords he's playing even if all I can make out is the root (i.e. barre chords). Then I connect the dots from there.

[kraigo]

I'm a drummer first. Bassist second, guitarist, keyboard player, vocalist way down on the list. I agree that it's great to learn another instrument, especially guitar because it rounds you out. You stop feeling like an instrumentalist and more like a musician.

I like guitar because it's so portable and you can entertain people all by yourself. Keyboards are second only because they aren't as portable, but they are ubiquitous.

I started learning guitar for two reasons:

1) Something to sing over - having the whole chord there helps you find your pitch more than a (typically) non-chordal instrument like bass.

2) I wanted to write songs and it's more natural on guitar than bass. You're more in touch with harmony on guitar.

I like keyboards because somehow I'm more melody oriented on them.

As far as drums? Well Max Roach (great jazz drummer) once said that every new musical genre is defined by a change in rhythm and I think he's right about that.

I'm not sure you need a drumset. I like playing a djembe (goblet shaped African hand drum) a whole lot. I also think going for a walk and clapping counter rhythms is a great exercise. Guitarist John McLaughlin has a DVD about the Indian rhythm vocalization method that I'm planning on picking up. A drum machine will help you learn what works and doesn't work in the drummers role and is another great tool for learning about rhythm. A djembe is nice because it's very immediate - drum machines are more premeditated.

Lastly, being a multi-instrumentalist is great for songwriting because when you need a way to change up a song, start playing it on a different instrument and you'll usually find a variation in short order.

Good Luck.

KO

[ga_edwards]

I would strongly advocate learning of guitar and keyboard, with a bigger leaning toward keyboard.

Although the guitar is capable of a huge array of chords, not all of them are 'full' chords, and some have doubles (albiet octave) notes, only 6 strings remember. They aren't always clear how the chord makeup works either. And some notes can be played in more than one place to throw you even more.

The keyboard on the other hand is clearly layed out, with one key per note. You can visually see how notes work together to form chords and patterns emerge, it's also easier to experiment with note choice for bass lines with different chord progressions., eg G followed by F# bass notes in a G to D chord progression.

I still visulise a keyboard rather than a fretboard in my mind if I'm trying to work out a complex chord or tranposing.

The guitar is also still worth while learning as you can see how those same chords work on the guitar, and how different voicing of the same chords work and compliment the other instruments. It also make jamming with a guitarist easier if you can see what he is doing and where he's going.

I've found that it also improved your ear by learning what common chord voicings sound like and how common progressions work and how to implement some basic 'tricks' to work with them, like passing notes, and colour notes.

I've thought about learning the drums but don't have room for a kit at the mo, but quite a few notable bassists can play them, Duff McKagan springs to mind, and GnR had one of the tightest rythm sections I've ever heard.

[onlyclave]

I have a Taylor Big Baby acoustic guitar I picked up fairly cheap. Sounds great, plays great and chixdigit. Good enough for me.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by thecapm

a. Should I pick up guitar for the reasons above? Or is there a better solution?

If you're playing with mostly guitarists, then absolutely. Otherwise, go for piano...

b. What is it about guitar that gives one some basic bass skills? Is there anything about bass that would give one some basic guitar skills?

Since no one has mentioned the obvious:
Guitar and bass are standard tuned the same on the lower 4 strings: Guitar= EADGBE and Bass = EADG. So the fingering of many guitar riffs can translate directly to the fingerboard of a bass. Gives guitarists the illusion that bass is easier and that they can play bass just as well as we can

[MarkTAW]

b. Guitar & bass are tuned the same & to play guitar you need to play chords. To play bass you need to play within chords & know how to weave your basslines in & out of them.

Learning guitar is just one step closer to learning harmonic theory, and doing so on an instrument that translates directly to bass.