Guitarist or Bassist?

42k · #1 04-30-2007, 01:09 PM

Hello all!

I'm pretty new to bass and i've read and heard from a friend that learning bass from a guitarist who teaches bass isn't the best thing. I'm wondering if it's true because it does make sense. I would love to hear thoughts on the matter and suggestions as to what I should do.

Thanks
-42k

DocBop · #2 04-30-2007, 01:18 PM

The problem is a lot of guitar teacher double up on bass figuring it's guitar with less strings. So they can show you where the notes and know enough technique to be dangerous. But don't understand the feel and other bass specific issues. Now if the gigs on bass as well as guitar the they be more up on the bass side. Some like that would be fine to get you started. Later on you will probably want to find a teacher who Bass is the main instrument.

I say make a list of questions and talk to the guy. Find out what he does on bass other than teach, or record bass for his own stuff at home. Doe he play bass for other people.

LowEnder2112 · #3 04-30-2007, 01:23 PM

Personally, i believe teachers cripple exploration, but I guess, if you really want one, do not get a guitarist bass teacher. Because guitarists are completely different thinkers. And a bass, is not just a guitar with less strings. Sure, he may show you a thing or two, but if you want a good teacher you want a REAL BASS player. Not a guitarist that 'knows how'. Theres my 25c.

middy · #4 04-30-2007, 02:18 PM

Heh. That's funny, because my first guitar teacher was primarily a bass player. Which was good because he insisted on teaching me theory and taste instead of "Iron Man".

DocBop · #5 04-30-2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEnder2112

Personally, i believe teachers cripple exploration...

That's a bunch of BS. You hear those old wifes tales all the time. Like studying theory kills creativity. Such BS, the only thing killing creativity or exploration is the student themselves. Doesn't matter where they get a new idea from a teacher or off a record, if they just learn it and leave that's their fault. If you want to be a player you will take that the new idea and tear it apart and see what all you can do with it. Discover what all places it works, places it won't work then why. Then create your own idea based off the first idea. The teacher is there to keep feed the student new ideas and to correct technique problems.

It's like music schools all the students get the same information, but a some come out great players and others just do the work and come out a little better than they went in. The student has to have the fire in the belly to want to explore.

JimmyM · #6 04-30-2007, 03:30 PM

+1 to DocBop. Could you imagine going to a brain surgeon, asking him where he went to med school, then he says, "I didn't go to med school because it cripples exploration"? Dude, I'm crippling your exploration in MY brain, that's for sure!

The only thing that can cripple your exploration is your own brain. If you were explorative before a teacher, you'll be explorative after you go to a teacher, and you'll probably explore more because you'll know what to explore.

LowEnder2112 · #7 04-30-2007, 03:38 PM

Well, maybe it's just me then, because im better in 8 months than my friends that have studied with a teacher for years.

KayCee · #8 04-30-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEnder2112

Personally, i believe teachers cripple exploration,

A good teacher will encourage exploration and give the student the musical tools to explore with.

KayCee · #9 04-30-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEnder2112

Well, maybe it's just me then, because im better in 8 months than my friends that have studied with a teacher for years.

Exactly. You may simply have more talent than your friends.

meev991 · #10 04-30-2007, 03:48 PM

hmm, how about bassists teaching a guitarist how to play?

probably convert them to bass anyways...hahhahah

dlloyd · #11 05-01-2007, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEnder2112

Well, maybe it's just me then, because im better in 8 months than my friends that have studied with a teacher for years.

You've got to compare like with like. Some people are naturally more gifted than others, some work harder. A good teacher can only direct the way you practice in order to help you realise your personal potential.

If you're naturally musical and have a tendency to want to play music, you will inevitably do better self-teaching than another person who goes to a great teacher but doesn't practice the stuff he's taught.

On the other hand, someone who is as naturally musical as you and wants to practice as much as you do, but also goes to a good teacher, will develop as a musician far quicker than you can hope to by yourself.

BillMason · #12 05-01-2007, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42k

Hello all!

I'm pretty new to bass and i've read and heard from a friend that learning bass from a guitarist who teaches bass isn't the best thing. I'm wondering if it's true because it does make sense. I would love to hear thoughts on the matter and suggestions as to what I should do.

Thanks
-42k

When I was a teen, I took private bass lessons two years straight from two different guitar players. The first one (for a year) wanted to teach me songs, and got me using tab when I already knew how to read (I'd been playing classical double bass by that point for about 3-4 years, since I was 12). The second guy - I don't even remember what he taught me - modes I think, but not how to use them or how they were valuable to a bass player. What they both *should* have been teaching me was how to train my ear, how to transcribe, how to learn feel, how to practice, how to improvise bass lines over a given chord chart in a given style, etc. These are all the things that I have (even after two years of formal study at the university level) had to either learn on my own or not yet truly learn. The two years of "bass guitar" lessons as opposed to bass lessons left me woefully unprepared to study jazz at the university level, and pretty much woefully unprepared to do much of anything except jam metal songs with my guitar player buds, most of whom I relied upon to figure a song out for me as my ear generally has always sucked.

I agree 1000% that if you can at all, get bass lessons from a bass player, not a guitar player. Guitar players *in general* (there are always exceptions) do not at all understand bass or the role of the bass player. They think it's some kind of big, retarded guitar, and approach teaching it from that perspective.

If you can't find a bass teacher, get a drum instructor or a piano instructor to teach you how to play bass. Piano players can teach you theory, arrangement methodology, ear training, reading, etc. and drummers can teach you feel and timing. From my experience, having a guitar player teach you is about as useful as having a trumpet player teach you. EDIT - possibly much less useful!!

Whoops, I forgot, before those two instructors was another guitar instructor who was really the local rock and roll hotshot who thought he knew everything anyway, and who also taught me how to read tab... and a couple of Iron Maiden songs. Not many bass players where I grew up, but guitar players by the truckload.

dulouz · #13 05-01-2007, 07:29 AM

I can speak from first hand experience as a teacher. There IS a difference between a bass player and a guitar player who doubles on bass. I have "doubled" on bass for about eight years and I have had a few bass students here and there. I thought I was ok at teaching and playing bass.

Nine months ago I started playing bass in a band and realized I didn't know anything about playing or teaching the bass. After months of intense bass work I consider myself a bass player first and guitar player second. I am still learning and working my ass off to be the best bass player I can.

I have learned that guitar and bass have little more in common than their tuning. You have to approach teaching AND playing them as two completely different instruments. Because they are!

cowsgomoo · #14 05-04-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEnder2112

Well, maybe it's just me then, because im better in 8 months than my friends that have studied with a teacher for years.

I'd be interested in what exactly 'better' involves in your example... 8 months of solid playing 10 hours a day with kick ass musicians would probably make you far better a bass player than 3 years bass lessons at only 1 hour a week...

but it'd still be fundamentally sloppy & lazy thinking to conclude that meant bass lessons were pointless... you'd be even better if you did both things

bass lessons give you a map... if you want to explore without a map, then that's great and fun, but you'll be only really wandering around 'discovering' stuff that countless others have seen before you... you might think your 'explorations' are amazing and new, but believe me, they're probably not... most music I hear from people who know nothing about formal music theory sounds a lot less unique than I suspect they imagine it is... the real fun stuff comes from when you use the map to drive to real uncharted territory...

oh yeah, don't go to a guitarist for bass lessons...

Poop-Loops · #15 05-04-2007, 08:47 PM

You have to ask him how much experience he has.

My teacher teaches both (and has been teaching me both). However, he can actually play both and is primarily a bass player.

So if it's just a guitarist who "can teach you" bass, then forget it. If it's a musician that plays both bass and guitar, then go for it.

Poop-Loops · #16 05-04-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KayCee

A good teacher will encourage exploration and give the student the musical tools to explore with.

Nailed it. Without a teacher I had no idea where to go. I am not an artistic person. Bass was my first artistic activity in life. I was like a deer caught in headlights. I still am. My teacher shows me how to expand my knowledge. It's up to me to actually do it, but he's there guiding me. He can tell me in ten minutes what would have taken me a month to figure out.

Ajrocks · #17 05-06-2007, 10:33 AM

I'd be afraid the guitarist would be telling you to turn down and play quarter and half notes so he could solo!
LOL

meev991 · #18 05-06-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajrocks

I'd be afraid the guitarist would be telling you to turn down and play quarter and half notes so he could solo!
LOL

oh man, if my guitarist ever told me that...

them's be fightin words if i ever heard them

**butchblack** · #19 05-06-2007, 09:54 PM

I agree with a lot of the posts, it depends on the teacher but be leery of a guitar teacher who teaches, but does not perform, on bass

I had two bass teachers, The first taught me how to listen and pick out bass lines, then come up with my own line for that song. The second was instrumental (sorry bad pun) in teaching me how to play with other musicians and how to understand what the role the bass had in any given band. He also helped develop my ear. I did an ensemble as well as took private lessons with him.

The most important thing IMHO is to find a teacher with whom you are comfortable with and where he is leading you. I had moved and decided to take some bass lessons from a very highly regarded teacher in the area. I gave up after 3-4 lessons as I was not comfortable with the direction he wanted to take me.

My 2 ¢