Guitarists teaching Bass

behemecoytl · #1 02-26-2010, 11:12 AM

You've all seen the ads that pop up from time to time on Craigslist or some other forum- a guitarist offering guitar lessons also throws in there "I can teach bass too", even though they don't even claim to play bass...

I know they think that the bass is just a guitar with fewer strings (and therefore "easier")... but I'm curious to know if real bass teachers respond to these types of ads and let the person know they have no business selling themselves as a bass teacher, even if only a side-note?

Do you say something or remain silent and figure anyone stupid enough to get bass lessons from someone who doesn't play bass deserves what they get?

NineSpine · #2 02-26-2010, 11:16 AM

It's a problem, but on the bright side it actually makes you that much more desirable when you advertise yourself as a bassist teaching bass.

hdracer · #3 02-26-2010, 11:24 AM

When I first got my bass I started taking lessons from a guitar instructor that was about a mile from me. He got me going, helped with rhythm and the basics. I stuck with him for a couple of months then out grew him and moved on.

I guess I am STUPID

bwv1013 · #4 02-26-2010, 11:29 AM

i teach both. ultimately it's up to the student to decide if a teacher is his/her cup of tea. FWIW i'm kind of opposite, i play both instruments, started out on guitar but am far more proficient on bass. i work with guitar guys who work the other way around, they have bass students and do a fine job teaching them the basics, working through songs, etc. the vast majority of the students we serve are looking for just that, someone who can play some of their favorite songs on guitar/bass and who can teach them to play. i don't see it as a problem, if a student really wants to focus on advanced bass-specific techniques, they'll outgrow the "do-it-all" teachers anyway.

azureblue · #5 02-26-2010, 11:31 AM

a guitar player can teach theory, reading, and chord structure as well as a bass player or piano player, but there only a few that know bass well enough to teach it from a bass player's standpoint. If you are perceptive, you can gain some insight as to how a guitar player sees a bass player's role, from the way they teach. That can help you when it comes to interacting with guitar players later on, but not so much when you are learning the basics.

acleex38 · #6 02-26-2010, 11:34 AM

I've had 4 teachers over the years - two guitarists and two upright players. The 2nd guitarist gave me the best instruction, combined with the "helping to learn/transcribe my favorite songs." The 1st upright playing teacher picked up where he left off and helped me pick up the next set of skills and tie some things together.

My first teacher (guitarist #1) was not much help, and my last teacher (after the college changed who they hired as jazz bass instructor) was almost impossible to follow - mumbling and incomprehensible.

hdracer · #7 02-26-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwv1013

i teach both. ultimately it's up to the student to decide if a teacher is his/her cup of tea. FWIW i'm kind of opposite, i play both instruments, started out on guitar but am far more proficient on bass. i work with guitar guys who work the other way around, they have bass students and do a fine job teaching them the basics, working through songs, etc. the vast majority of the students we serve are looking for just that, someone who can play some of their favorite songs on guitar/bass and who can teach them to play. i don't see it as a problem, if a student really wants to focus on advanced bass-specific techniques, they'll outgrow the "do-it-all" teachers anyway.

That is one thing I enjoyed with my teacher. By the third lesson he had me playing some simple bass lines while he played the guitar. It really inspired me and was fun to be "jamming" and making music only a few weeks after starting. Really helped with the rhythm,

bwv1013 · #8 02-26-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdracer

That is one thing I enjoyed with my teacher. By the third lesson he had me playing some simple bass lines while he played the guitar. It really inspired me and was fun to be "jamming" and making music only a few weeks after starting. Really helped with the rhythm,

i do that all the time with my bass students and they love it. they get to be THE bass player and hear what the big picture sounds like.

Chupacabra · #9 02-26-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behemecoytl

... a guitarist offering guitar lessons also throws in there "I can teach bass too", even though they don't even claim to play bass...

The whole point that people seem to miss, time & time again, is that these people aren't teachers or tutors. It's almost always someone who's got proficient at playing a few tunes, licks & riffs & wants to earn some "money for old rope".

If you want to learn any instrument, you should be looking for a music teacher, not a <insert instrument> teacher. Sure, a bit of guidance on technique is handy to prevent any bad habits that can impede your playing or cause injury, but you can cover that in 1 lesson or just watch how the pro players do it.

The people you talk about, those guitarists who "teach bass too" can teach you bass as well as they can teach you guitar - not all that well

I've had 3 teachers in the past, when I had time & cash for it, all qualified to teach music. The instruments they played were guitar, piano & drums. Never found a bass player who knew a decent amount of theory (doesn't mean they don't exist).

Demonator · #10 03-01-2010, 08:24 PM

When our resident guitarist tries to show me stuff on bass I want to kill him, he calls himself a bassist simply because he owns a '05 MIM P bass. Hes great at guitar but knows nothing about bass. Great friend of mine but it takes more than owning a bass to help teach a certain craft.

Mr. Mig · #11 03-02-2010, 07:42 AM

In my teens I was taught bass by a guitarist. The problem ultimately was that he wasn't a good teacher to begin with. Being a teacher doesn't mean you know how to teach.

GC4 · #12 03-02-2010, 07:50 AM

A guitarist taught me. He was a great guy, appreciated bass. He had been around enough to know what the role of a bass was.

I can't speak for all teachers, but this guy was fine for teaching bass to beginners/intermediates. I consider this guy a musician before a guitarist.

(He actually told me once that he thought JPJ was the hidden genius of Zeppelin)

Bardley · #13 03-02-2010, 07:55 AM

My freshman year of college I was a music major with bass as primary instrument. However, the school did not, at the time, have a bass instructor. I had to take lessons from the guitar teacher. He was a great guy and very knowledgeable, but he did not play bass. He was honest and said he could not teach me technique related things so it became more of a theory lesson. I changed majors the next year to telecommunications and I have been a happy audio tech for the last 10 years.

dave64o · #14 03-02-2010, 08:34 AM

My instructor is primarily a guitarist but does play some bass and he teaches both. Lately I felt like I haven't been progressing nad the things I wanted to work on we never seemed to get to so I was starting to think it was time to move on. Then two weeks ago we had another "Let's talk about where to go from here" talks, which we've done occasionally. But since we never seemed to get to the things I'd bring up, I assumed this was going to be more of the same (which is the reason I was already thinking of leaving). It wasn't.

He told me he's been feeling like I had outgrown what he could do for me and suggested finding someone who teaches primarily bass. He had someone in mind, who the store also recommended, but unfortunately his open time slots don't match up with mine. So I may be on my own to find someone, but I at least give the instructor I was working with some credit for wanting to help me progress more than just taking my money every week.

jaywa · #15 03-02-2010, 08:48 AM

No problem with having a guitarist teach bass if the topic is primarily music theory. In fact, I strongly advise it.

Big problem with having a guitarist teach a student if it's fundamental things like technique. They are separate instruments and require separate approaches.

Somewhat on topic, when I was in college I took a semester of classical guitar lessons from a good classical guitarist and it did wonders for my bass technique (especially right hand). But that's cause we both understood he was teaching me guitar, not bass.

**john turner** · #16 03-02-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behemecoytl

You've all seen the ads that pop up from time to time on Craigslist or some other forum- a guitarist offering guitar lessons also throws in there "I can teach bass too", even though they don't even claim to play bass...

I know they think that the bass is just a guitar with fewer strings (and therefore "easier")... but I'm curious to know if real bass teachers respond to these types of ads and let the person know they have no business selling themselves as a bass teacher, even if only a side-note?

Do you say something or remain silent and figure anyone stupid enough to get bass lessons from someone who doesn't play bass deserves what they get?

my first teacher was a guitarist, guy named charlie miller in atlanta. he was a great teacher, got me started learning theory, and putting it into practice, as well as always tying what he was teaching me on bass to both guitar and other instruments, to put it in the frame of reference of a band context. also helped me with a lot of technique things, making sure i had good posture and good hand positioning. he also turned me on to a few things that normally don't come out in "bass" lessons, like my plucking hand position affecting the tone of what i play.

to automatically dismiss a teacher because he plays guitar instead of bass is shortsighted. i know quite a few guitarists who have a lot to offer bass players too, especially if the bassist is just beginning.

tZer · #17 03-02-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john turner

my first teacher was a guitarist, guy named charlie miller in atlanta. he was a great teacher, got me started learning theory, and putting it into practice, as well as always tying what he was teaching me on bass to both guitar and other instruments, to put it in the frame of reference of a band context. also helped me with a lot of technique things, making sure i had good posture and good hand positioning. he also turned me on to a few things that normally don't come out in "bass" lessons, like my plucking hand position affecting the tone of what i play.

to automatically dismiss a teacher because he plays guitar instead of bass is shortsighted. i know quite a few guitarists who have a lot to offer bass players too, especially if the bassist is just beginning.

This is true - and finding a teacher who is teaching music first and is able to help you understand your specific instrument is key. There's no reason a teacher whose primary instrument is guitar cannot teach you 99% of what you need to know in order to be an effective musician who plays bass.

My best bass teacher (aside from TB's very own KJung) was my band director in HS - whose primary instrument was violin. Why? He understood enough about bass (both electric and upright) and it's role in music to communicate what I needed to understand to be effective in my role.

He has long since retired from HS band directing and now runs the Jazz Lab at a local community college. Again, his primary instrument is violin and I know dozen, if not hundreds of sax, trumpet, piano, percussion, guitar, bass (you name it) players who credit his instruction as being essential in their development as musicians.

ALL THAT SAID - There is great value for a bassist in taking music lessons from a good teacher who also is technically proficient on bass. While the education I got from Mr. B was priceless, the instruction I got from KJung ensured I played my instrument properly. Mr. B's education taught me music - how and why to play what I needed to play - Mr. J's instruction made sure I played it technically correct. Both critical.

I'd be willing to be KJung was happy that he didn't have to focus so heavily on theory or the basics of how to read and interpret music and could focus on bass-centric stuff. That makes life much easier when the student is already getting a 'music education' and a teacher really on needs to focus on technique.

blueyes · #18 03-02-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azureblue

a guitar player can teach theory, reading, and chord structure as well as a bass player or piano player, but there only a few that know bass well enough to teach it from a bass player's standpoint. If you are perceptive, you can gain some insight as to how a guitar player sees a bass player's role, from the way they teach. That can help you when it comes to interacting with guitar players later on, but not so much when you are learning the basics.

Everyone one of these guys have had some awesome replies to this thread... and I found this one to state it plain and simple enough to even copy down!!!
Thanks everyone, and thanks azureblue... you all are right on time.. {which is very important!!

}

I too teach more then one instrument.. so I always start with basic rhythm and basic theory... if someone learns their music theory well enough, they can apply it to almost any instrument and be able to get some sort of near pleasant noise out of it!! *lol*
My Grandfather was an old time preacher in No. Al.. he use to say "The bible does tell us to Praise the Lord in Heart and Song (psalms). It says to make a Joyful Noise, NOT A GOD AWFUL RACKET!!!"

scottbass · #19 03-02-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chupacabra

Never found a bass player who knew a decent amount of theory (doesn't mean they don't exist).

Yeah...I know the type. But it has nothing to do with being a bass player. I would submit that there are roughly equal numbers of guitarists and drummers who don't know a decent amount of theory. Also, you must not know many bass players because many of us DO know lots of theory.

Which brings me to my other point, already mentioned by many, about the difference between a real music teacher and a bass/guitar/drum teacher. Isn't it funny you seldom meet a keyboard player who doesn't know a decent amount of theory? That's because, IME, most piano teachers teach 90% (or more) theory and 10% (or less) technique. And after learning musical theory from their piano lessons, most (I would say all) piano students can move easily to every other instrument they want to learn, needing only a little technique instruction (and, of course, a lot of practice) to become proficient.

tZer · #20 03-02-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottbass

Which brings me to my other point, already mentioned by many, about the difference between a real music teacher and a bass/guitar/drum teacher. Isn't it funny you seldom meet a keyboard player who doesn't know a decent amount of theory? That's because, IME, most piano teachers teach 90% (or more) theory and 10% (or less) technique. And after learning musical theory from their piano lessons, most (I would say all) piano students can move easily to every other instrument they want to learn, needing only a little technique instruction (and, of course, a lot of practice) to become proficient.

+1 - which is precisely why both of my kids are taking piano. They both started at age 7. This (in my mind) will help to ensure they are learning MUSIC even though they feel like they're just learning piano. My son (again, age 7) has his exercises book and... drum roll please... his THEORY book. This give me great confidence that if either of them want to learn any other instrument, they'll both have the fundamental music training to have a great head start.

While it's not trivial to learn the techniques required to play an oboe or violin, if you already understand music 90% of learning any other instrument is mechanical.