harmonic major and melodic major?

MountainBass · #1 03-25-2007, 10:10 AM

Can someone tell me these scales, i know the minor scale for melodic and harmonic but i dont know the major.. please tell me!

Eli M. · #2 03-25-2007, 10:48 AM

There is no "harmonic major" and "melodic major"; those variations only exist for minor. The major scale is always the same.

Snerek · #3 03-25-2007, 11:23 AM

i believe there is a harmonic major scale

http://www.angelfire.com/id/bass/harmonicmajor.html

bearfoot · #4 03-25-2007, 11:44 AM

Well, lookit that. Harmonic major. Consistent with harmonic minor, ain't it? I like it.

CamMcIntyre · #5 03-25-2007, 11:46 AM

Hmmm.....that harmonic major thing doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Why would you put si [raised 5th] in a chord unless if you're doing a secondary dominant? So in the key of C si = G#, which would be involved with a V/vi because G# is a leading tone to A. So it'd be a V6/vi [figure bass 6 not the other 6]

E.g. the reason why we have harmonic minor is so that we can get ti [maj 7] for a V [and still have it sound dominant] in minor. E.g. sol feg would be sol ti re fa if you want a V7.

Ok-here's my disclaimer, i know enough to know that there's always stuff that i don't know. That stuff could very well be why i don't think harmonic major exists.......even though-it'd be shocking that they never taught us that in a conservatory thus far.

CamMcIntyre · #6 03-25-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearfoot

Well, lookit that. Harmonic major. Consistent with harmonic minor, ain't it? I like it.

C Harmonic Minor = C D Eb F G Ab B C.
They're saying C Harmonic Major = C D E F G G# B C. No 6th anywhere. I see a raised 5th though. I'm nitpicking because this doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

The catch is in that example if you want to be consistent with harmonic minor it'd involve an Ab instead of a G#. In the above referenced example it omits the 6th in favor of raising the 5. The le [Ab if we're talkin C harm minor] has a purpose-since that is scale degree VI and in minor- VI chords are major-le is what lets us get that.

feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

CamMcIntyre · #7 03-25-2007, 11:57 AM

Ok-i did a search too. I didn't know such a thing existed. Up till today, i had never heard of it.

MountainBass · #8 03-25-2007, 01:52 PM

So there is major harmonic AND melodic scales?

Volk · #9 03-25-2007, 02:18 PM

dunno about melodic but apparently there is a harmonic major, wikipedia turns up blank for a melodic major but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_major_scale

ibnzneksrul · #10 03-25-2007, 02:44 PM

Major scale with flatted 6th...

Never heard of it before now.

**Freddels** · #11 03-25-2007, 03:26 PM

A major scale with an additional #5 is a major bebop scale (8 note scale). But here they've dropped the 6th (actually just made it enharmonically a b6).

**Mark Wilson** · #12 03-25-2007, 04:24 PM

Um, if it's a Major Scale with a Raised 5, It would be the 3rd mode of Harmonic Minor.
Unless we're talking with an ADDED #5, which in that case, it would be a Major Bebop Scale.

Eli M. · #13 03-25-2007, 05:00 PM

Four years as a music composition major and I never heard of the harmonic major scale until today.

The closest I can think of that we covered in theory class is mode mixture, which means borrowing notes from the minor scale when you're otherwise in a major key (flat 6, for example) and vice versa. But I never heard that scale called by a name.

Chad.mundt · #14 03-25-2007, 05:05 PM

A major scale with a raised fifth would be 3rd mode of harmonic minor. Harmonic Major is A major scale with a flat 6th. Neither are very useful scales, IMHO. The 3rd mode of Melodic Minor works much better for a Maj7#5 chord. That way, you don't have to worry about the unaltered 4th. I have been playing jazz for a long time and NEVER have i ever encountered a use for the Harmonic Major scale.

Chad.mundt · #15 03-25-2007, 05:08 PM

Oh, and there is no such thing as melodic major. A melodic minor has a Major 6th AND a Major 7th. So, the only difference between mel minor and major is the minor third in mel minor. So, if you raise the third (ie. melodic major), then you have major.

**Freddels** · #16 03-25-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad.mundt

A major scale with a raised fifth would be 3rd mode of harmonic minor. Harmonic Major is A major scale with a flat 6th. Neither are very useful scales, . . . I have been playing jazz for a long time and NEVER have i ever encountered a use for the Harmonic Major scale.

My first thought was the third mode of harmonic minor too but then noticed that they had dropped the 6th off.

I have also never heard any mention of this scale but then again, I didn't study at the University of Wikipedia or Angelfire (instead choosing the lesser known Berklee and NT).

MountainBass · #17 03-25-2007, 05:26 PM

Ok so the major harmonic scale is just 1 2 3 4 5 b6 7 8 and there is no melodic major.
Thank you everyone, if anyone has anything else to add to this just post. thanks again

**Freddels** · #18 03-25-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainBass

Ok so the major harmonic scale is just 1 2 3 4 5 b6 7 8 and there is no melodic major.
Thank you everyone, if anyone has anything else to add to this just post. thanks again

I don't think anyone actually confirmed that there is such a scale.

Volk · #19 03-25-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

I don't think anyone actually confirmed that there is such a scale.

Com'on now, scales are just made up things anyways, it's just mirroring a harmonic minor scale so I don't see any reason why it can't exist.

**Mark Wilson** · #20 03-25-2007, 08:35 PM

They dropped the 6th?

i was under the impression it was a raised 5th.
Like i said, it would be the 3rd mode of Harmonic Minor, or Ionian #5.
C D E F G# A B C