"Harmonic Technique for Rock Idiom"?

[Youngspanion]

This book is recommended to my by a friend of mine from work. He plays guitar in a wedding band and he is pretty knowledgeable of theory. I am trying to understand some things about chord progressions and how they relate to keys and chords.

I've been studying the song "House of the Rising Sun" and the chord progression.

I'm trying to see how the root notes are applied to the song. In a typical blues song, the chord progression is I, IV, V. IN the key of C, that means the first chord is C the second is F (being the 4th degree in the C major scale) and G (the fifth degree).

Seems pretty simple to me. Do most songs follow some sort of a pattern like this? Any advice on how to get the information that I am seeking? Has any one here ever read or seen this book?

Thank you.

[DocBop]

All genres of music have common chord progressions they use. As you start learning songs you notice this. Also from a theory POV there are strong and weak root movements of chords. Traditional theory books will talk about this some, but probably see more in composition or songwriting books.

Sound like you understand the harmonized scale and how chord progression are stated as I VI II V I and etc. Start taking songs you know and write the progressions out in numbers. Then for ear training start singing the root movements of the chords. That will help in recognizing the progression as songs are being played a valuable skill for a bass player. Your best teacher is going to be transcribing lots of songs. Writing down the chord progressions and analyze them. You will see the common changes and your ear will start recognizing them so you will some be predicting where chords are going to go to next.

[jackthestripper]

hey.. you're best bet is to check out as many theory books as you can from a library. some will be on your level, and some will be above and below. if you're around boston you should go to the berklee book store and buy the workbooks for harmony 1-4, they're like $14 apiece, if not, the cost of a plane ticket to pick the books up is less than dropping bucks on lesser texts.'
alot of songs follow patterns. alot of them don't follow patterns as simple as the house of the rising sun.

[Youngspanion]

Well, tonight I Googled chords and Wikipedia provides alot of info. I'm gonna start there. I did go to the library tonight and I put a hold on the book I stated.Its coming from somewhere in Manhattan. But that is it. My local branch had nothing to offer. Maybe I can check out Berklee's website and order it through them.

Thanks

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by Youngspanion

This book is recommended to my by a friend of mine from work. He plays guitar in a wedding band and he is pretty knowledgeable of theory. I am trying to understand some things about chord progressions and how they relate to keys and chords.

I've been studying the song "House of the Rising Sun" and the chord progression.

I'm trying to see how the root notes are applied to the song. In a typical blues song, the chord progression is I, IV, V. IN the key of C, that means the first chord is C the second is F (being the 4th degree in the C major scale) and G (the fifth degree).

Seems pretty simple to me. Do most songs follow some sort of a pattern like this? Any advice on how to get the information that I am seeking? Has any one here ever read or seen this book?

Thank you.

oh yes, you're absolutely on the right track... when you analyse songs you'll find the same types of chord progressions turn up again and again and again...

there are many songs that use the chords I - IV - V... a song that uses those 3 chords (the primary chords) is often described as a 'three chord trick'... they're fundamental to The Blues, and as a result, are pretty much ground zero for rock, pop & jazz harmony

one reason The Beatles are so respected is that they expanded the harmonic vocabulary of rock & pop... their early stuff takes the 'three chord trick' stuff and just explodes it wide open

songwriters tend to have their favourite chord sequences and favourite harmonic tricks and chord movements... even if the songwriter doesn't know how to describe what they're doing in terms of theory, they know they like the sound... so you'll hear things in Beatle songs like use of secondary dominants... where you use a dominant chord that isn't in the key of the song and use it to drop a 5th onto a chord that IS... eg... in E major you could have E /// G#7 /// C#m7 / / / where G#7 functions as the secondary dominant.. there's no way John Lennon know what that was in theory terms but his ear sure told him it sounded good

there's been threads here on popular chord progressions... do a search and dig some up

[HaVIC5]

there's no way John Lennon know what that was in theory terms but his ear sure told him it sounded good

I doubt that very much. The Beatles weren't musically illiterate, especially Lennon, so simple harmonic devices like secondary dominants wouldn't be unknown to them by any standard.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

I doubt that very much. The Beatles weren't musically illiterate, especially Lennon, so simple harmonic devices like secondary dominants wouldn't be unknown to them by any standard.

there's no evidence to support your claim that John Lennon had anything more than an extremely rudimentary knowledge of music theory... and there's dozens of examples of him being on record as not knowing much about theory

JL knowing what a secondary dominant was? don't make me laugh... show me one piece of evidence that he had that level of theory knowledge and i'll match it with 10 reputably published quotes that show the complete oppposite.. his 1970 Rolling Stone interview probably contains 10 examples of that alone

you never heard him talking witheringly about William Mann's analysis of 'Aoelian Cadences' in 'Not A Second Time' ? : "To this day, I don't have any idea what they are. They sound like exotic birds."

no disrespect, but there's no evidence to back up what you say...

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

I doubt that very much. The Beatles weren't musically illiterate, especially Lennon, so simple harmonic devices like secondary dominants wouldn't be unknown to them by any standard.

What is interesting though is I took a music composition class once and instead of using traditional/classical music the teacher used Beatles songs for just about all examples. It was cool to see how even though the Beatles wrote what they felt, it still ended up following common compositional techniques. It all comes from what our ears accept based on the musical environment we grow up in.

IMO this also shows that theory and composition isn't rules, its about defining and labeling what we hear so it is easier to discuss and organize for later use.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by DocBop

I took a music composition class once and ...the teacher used Beatles songs for just about all examples.

Man, I wish my Theory Prof had gone that route! My theory class was full of guitar players just itching to understand chord progressions, and what did we get? 2 quarters of baroque 4 part voice leading and in the last 2 weeks an introduction to the mysterious Dominant Seventh chord ....lol

[Marcury]

I had this book years ago. it was a bit dry, but very useful.