Having trouble playing straight 16th notes for an entire 4 minutes song. Need Help!

[phishaholik]

My band started to play War Pigs as covered by Cake. The song is almost non-stop staccato 16th notes for the entire 4 minute song and I just can't keep it up for long. It's also a 3 note pattern over notes sectioned into fours, which is driving me nuts. I hate telling my band that I just can't play the song. Any help?


Thanks

Michael

[jacobcurry1]

Try practicing faster than the song is actually played. then when its slowed down to the right tempo it wont be as tough.

[5string5fingers]

Originally Posted by jacobcurry1

Try practicing faster than the song is actually played. then when its slowed down to the right tempo it wont be as tough.

Seems to be the opposite advice of what many people say,to try it slower, and work your way up to the speed.

A huge problem a lot of people have is the reflex of tensing up when playing fast lines. Practice slow,and more importantly practice playing it as relaxed as possible. Your shoulders,your jaw,neck,and wrists need to be almost limp.

[JmJ]

BREATHE! Above advice is good I would add that you pay attention to your breathing.
If you are tensing up you may be exasperating it with shallow breaths.

[mccartneyman]

You might try Bryan Beller's "flicking" technique -- using the tips of your index or middle finger in the same manner as someone using a pick -- up & down strokes. He also uses a three-finger "gallop" technique. Probably will require some practice, but either way works.
http://www.bassplayer.com/article/pi...ly-2010/116015

[phishaholik]

Thanks for the advice guys! Another reason why it's so hard, is it's all in first position, so the strings are very taut. I'll try it slower and work my way up. As of now, I can only do it for a couple minutes and then my left hand is completely worn out for the rest of the day.

The tensing up part makes sense as well. I'm not comfortable playing it yet and it stresses me out to be one person in the band that can't play it. The 3 note pattern in 16th notes is throwing me through a loop as well. I keep wanting to play it in triplets.


Michael

[johnboy65]

Welcome to the club! Churning solid 16ths through a whole song can be just plain hard. There are several different things you can do:
-practice more
-practice at a faster speed
-learn the 3 or 4 finger technique
-start slow and work up
-play it with a pick (maybe felt)

I also employ thumb/middle finger plucking (think guitar) with heavy palm muting, but it tends to be more accent driven.

But... there are few things you can do that can really match the 2 finger chug of 16ths.

Good luck!

[johnboy65]

And strech before you start!

[5string5fingers]

Originally Posted by mccartneyman

You might try Bryan Beller's "flicking" technique -- using the tips of your index or middle finger in the same manner as someone using a pick -- up & down strokes. He also uses a three-finger "gallop" technique. Probably will require some practice, but either way works.
http://www.bassplayer.com/article/pi...ly-2010/116015

Funny to read that. When i first started playing bass(i was self taught) I had a tendency to play with only 1 finger and I started doing that to play faster.

[phishaholik]

Thanks again guys, it makes me feel better that it's not just my lack of skill.

My right hand can keep it up fine, but my fretting hand just wears out completely and quickly.


Any advice for getting my ears around the 3 note pattern in 16ths? I've been struggling with the fill in Good Times Bad Times by Zeppelin because of the same thing.

Here's a link to the song, so y'all can hear it for yourselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDJgwUeW7_k

Thanks again,

Michael

[narud]

how much relief to you have in the neck? imo first position shouldnt feel that much more taut. especially if it makes playing a chore.

on another note, the cover sounds like if war pigs and billy cobham's stratus had a love child

[phishaholik]

Originally Posted by narud

how much relief to you have in the neck? imo first position shouldnt feel that much more taut. especially if it makes playing a chore.

on another note, the cover sounds like if war pigs and billy cobham's stratus had a love child

I keep my neck as straight as possible. Just enough for a business card at the 12th fret. It might have to do with the reach to first position when wearing the bass on a strap too. My wrist tends to tweak at an awkward angle when I have to play across the fretboard in first position when standing. Maybe that's part of my problem.


Michael

[plangentmusic]

If you keep telling them you can't do it maybe they'll believe you and find someone else to play it.

Practice.

Till then, try to simulate it with something musical.

[narud]

Originally Posted by phishaholik

I keep my neck as straight as possible. Just enough for a business card at the 12th fret. It might have to do with the reach to first position when wearing the bass on a strap too. My wrist tends to tweak at an awkward angle when I have to play across the fretboard in first position when standing. Maybe that's part of my problem.


Michael

well here's something that most wont tell you, but i prefer "bad" technique in first position to avoid fatigue on lines like this. i let my thumb come over the neck. when i play with "good" technique and my thumb in the center of the neck in first position, i experience some pain. i switched over to 5 strings with nothing wider than a 1.75 nut because of this.

[plangentmusic]

And get the Ted Reed Syncopation book. That riff isn't that hard. My guess is that you're having a hard time comprehending the rhythm and that's tightening you up.

[kraigo]

Bending your wrist excessively is a big no-no. Play a little bit seeing how little "thumb in the back of the neck" you can get away with. With a little leverage from my right forearm against the body, I can play with my left thumb not touching the neck at all. It's not comfortable, but doing it now and again helps me lighten my touch on the left hand.

KO

[agreatheight]

You are doing a cover of Cake doing a cover of Sabbath. CHANGE THE LINE! Make it your own, and make it easier on yourself. Or make it a little different, maybe play the part staccato for a few bars and then legato for a few, mix it up.

I used to play RHCP's cover of Stevie Wonder's Higher Ground and I struggled to play the slap motif through the whole song. One day I woke up and realized it was stupid, so I rewrote the line. I played the intro like Flea, and the verses with singing like a hybrid of Flea and Stevie, simplified. I also dropped the very difficult fills. No one ever noticed.

[phishaholik]

Originally Posted by narud

well here's something that most wont tell you, but i prefer "bad" technique in first position to avoid fatigue on lines like this. i let my thumb come over the neck. when i play with "good" technique and my thumb in the center of the neck in first position, i experience some pain. i switched over to 5 strings with nothing wider than a 1.75 nut because of this.

I'll give that a try. I've been realizing that proper technique seems to not work for me a lot of the time.

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

And get the Ted Reed Syncopation book. That riff isn't that hard. My guess is that you're having a hard time comprehending the rhythm and that's tightening you up.

Thanks, I'll check out the book. I think you're totally right. I've been getting by on feel most of the time and I think my lack of a fundamental skill is getting in my way right now. I haven't broken down a song and learned it by metronome in a very long time now.


Michael

[ksandvik]

Wonder if the audience would even notice if you skip some notes now and then to relax the hand....

[guroove]

Try throwing some rests in there. It could make it sound really funky if you do it with the right feel. I hate playing lines exactly as someone else played them. Just be musical about it.