HELP!! BAD RHYTHM GUITAR PLAYER!!!

[some_guy]

So maybe this isn't exactly the place to be seeking this particular type of advice, but I'm a bass player, so I wanted to get bass player's perspectives.

In a nutshell the scenario I am in is that of a good band with a bad rhythm guitar player who also sings (and is actually a pretty damn good and well taught vocalist) that I believe to have potential. Just how much, I'm not sure, but potential nonetheless. I play in an 11-piece original Jam/Funk band. We have an emcee and a DJ, so there's some hip-hop influence, and we do a bit of reggae. Also we do some heavier rock type tunes. Point is there's a wide variety of styles that have to be accommodated for in ones technique. I've been playing with these guys for about two years now, and we've gradually gotten better and started doing a lot more gigs. Consistency and tightness have increased exponentially since we started playing together and we're sounding like a genuinely cohesive group of musicians that know each other's musical personalities. I know this band has the potential to be competitive professionally........

Unfortunately there's one member who is ultimately making it difficult for us to ascend to that level. Our rhythm guitar player. He's just not on board the whole "growing together" experience. He still sounds just as bad as the first time we started playing together two years ago. Whereas the rest of us are constantly improving our crafts and increasing our musical bonds, he still awkwardly bumbles through songs not playing consistent parts (or soloing and noodling over important parts like vocal melodies, solos, and horn parts), makes stupid rookie mistakes which indicate he's just not thinking, ruins the flow of improvisational jams by playing awkward things at awkward times, and what's worst of all is that he can't play a supporting role as rhythm guitarist. And that's what we really need (though his soloing isn't that great either), cause we already have a badass lead player. It also seems that one of his fundamental problems is in his perception of music. In the sense of music being a language, he speaks a different dialect. Playing in a band with him is a lot like a group of people who speak a certain language trying to have a conversation with a single person who is fluent in a completely different language, but can pseudo-understand and speak some of the groups language. It's like he just doesn't "get" it, doesn't understand what we mean when we play something. It also seems like he doesn't understand how to get a decent tone out of a guitar/amp/effects chain. A lot of things I hear coming out of his amp have the wrong tones for the wrong situations, not to mention the quality of the tone is usually bad, sometimes terrible. I think some of the reason for this may simply be in his fingers. But still, it comes back around to him not "getting" it, not understanding how to get good tones and when to utilize them. And I realize a lot of this is personal preference, but there comes a point when a certain tone is just the wrong sound to be injecting.

I become royally confused with this situation, because as a person, he has good common sense about him. And he's an intelligent dude. So what do you think TB? Does it stand to reason that a smart, sensical person would have no musical sense? Also, like I said, he's a really good singer, which is mainly what leads me to believe he has potential as a guitarist. He's fairly well studied in the area of vocal technique, has good tone, and can sing good harmonies effortlessly. Also, he writes good songs, which are a fairly substantial part of my bands repertoire. Is it possible the sensibilities of a guitarist simply elude him? Perhaps it's some psychological mechanism that inhibits logical thought when he starts to play the guitar? Anyone know of any meditational exercises that may change his headspace?

If we can get over this (what I assume to be) "perspective" hump alone, I'll be satisfied. Unfortunately, there's then the problem of his bad physical technique. This isn't nearly as big of an issue to me, seeing as how I can somewhat instruct him on how to improve it. But the one thing that really does bother me is his lack of finesse. I think it may be in his strumming motion, which consists of all elbow movement. Doesn't really work his wrist at all, so he has no articulation. Every chord is bashed and mashed into the ground, and there are hardly any dynamics to his playing. Which is INFURIATING when you're trying to play funk. Or really anything for that matter. So how the hell do I instill finesse and tastefulness into someone that doesn't have it naturally? Haven't been able to make that one work in all the years I've been at this music thing, and I've known a lot of bad musicians. So If you're up to challenge, PLEASE HELP ME TB! I love playing in this band and I want us to be top notch. Quitting isn't an option, and I love all the dudes in the band like family, talent or no. So it's a bit of delicate predicament, but if you have some helpful advice, I will be eternally grateful.

[Ironderby]

im in the same position, my rythym player is my best mate so i can't kick him out, but he sucks, all he does is bad tapping and he won't even try a solo.

and a little advice, please don't ever post a thread this long, most people won't read it.

[some_guy]

and a little advice, please don't ever post a thread this long, most people won't read it.

don't know any other way to get help man. it's all pertinent info.

[colcifer]

Long posts are ok here. Unplug his guitar.

[IncX]

get another guitar player, and give him an acoustic guitar to play.

hmmm, or you could always set him a little low in the mix while he is "learning" ... and just get others from your 11 piece band to make the rhythm sound much fuller.

[some_guy]

hmmm, or you could always set him a little low in the mix while he is "learning" ... and just get others from your 11 piece band to make the rhythm sound much fuller.

haha yeah that's pretty much the principle we've been following since we got started. The problem is he's not "learning". Not getting any better. Do you think a formal music education would be able to instill the right values in a person like this? Thanks for taking the time to help guys.

[skychief]

"he's a really good singer, which is mainly what leads me to believe he has potential as a guitarist. He's fairly well studied in the area of vocal technique"

im trying to connect the dots... Why would being a good singer make someone a good guitarist?

Anyway, I agree with colcifer and IncX---- unplug him, let him use an acoustic guitar and get a proper rythym guitar player.

[colcifer]

You really don't need a rhythm guitar with 11 people so I wouldn't bring someone new in.

[AltGrendel]

This sounds like a classic case of "He won't get it until he gets it". You can hint all you want, but until it clicks in his head, he won't get it. And if he wanted lessons, he would have signed up by now.

Have you recorded the show and played it back to the band to see if that helps?

[Mike M.]

Does he practice? Don't know his personal situation, therefore I don't know if he's putting any extra effort in to improve....or maybe he's got too much on his plate and really doesn't have the time to practice. Or maybe he's one of those guys who thinks he's doing just fine and doesn't need to practice. Again, I don't know his situation.

But then years ago I was in a weekend band and our rhythm guitar player was the weak link too. God love him and he was one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. But he just didn't have the feel. He could play in time but dispite his efforts his playing just never felt right.

[Down & Outman]

Some people are never going to learn, or incapable of learning.

How much does he contribute on the vocals? Lead singer material, or is that covered by someone else or shared throughout the band?

I would talk to my other bandmates to see what they think, especially the lead guitarist. See if they notice, which they probably have, and just waiting for someone else to speak up. There are good ways to handle it, and bad ways. Try to make it positive. The acoustic idea may work. Give him a heavier load on the vocals so he feels a part of it and not shunned out of it. There's also tamborines and other instruments he might be able to contribute with.

[some_guy]

Why would being a good singer make someone a good guitarist?

Fair point, I should've elaborated. Being a good singer would imply that someone has a general amount of musical sense. And I can tell it comes pretty naturally to him. So it doesn't make sense that he's been playing the guitar for a good 10 years and still isn't very good

[CannyBusDriver]

Dont post long posts here? people wont read it....????

I read it all and it didnt take very long.

Tell your guitar player that there should NEVER be more than one person soloing at a time. Maybe that'll help, probably not

Also tell him to never lose the groove in search of a note.

These two things are helping me out recently.

[avvie]

I just don't understand threads like this.

When someone is doing a job badly and does not show ability or incentive to improve they're either replaced or repurposed.

He's a singer. Remove the guitar.

I'm in a band with the same issue... it was handled very simply: "It is best if you do not play guitar". She sings now, end of story.

Egos and feelings are not part of the performance/paycheck equation. Nobody thinks "hey, we're gonna ROCK this place!... unless Steve plays, and we don't want to hurt his feelings, so let's go out and suck."

Accommodating and appeasing the inept is terribly, horribly unfair to everyone else. Soon you won't be able to keep up with replacing all the good players who have had enough.

[Spin Doctor]

See above for the correct answer. You've already killed enough time finding out it's not working.

[Marginal Tom]

Three easy solutions:

1. Take away his guitar and make him a vocalist.

2. Give him an acoustic guitar, run him through the board, set his volume at zero.

3. Replace him.

[skychief]

Originally Posted by Marginal Tom

Three easy solutions:

1. Take away his guitar and make him a vocalist.

2. Give him an acoustic guitar, run him through the board, set his volume at zero.

3. Replace him.

#1: risky---if you take away his guitar, that might injure the ego.

#2: good, no risk solution

#3: Not good. You just lost a good vocalist.