Help Building a Solo

[Snerek]

my theory skills are good but not great.

we've got a 2 chord progression and i'm going to be taking a solo of it, what are some good modes/scales/keys i can work with?

1st chord = AMaj7

2nd chord = EMaj7


cool progression, but what key is this is? and what modes/scales fit?

thanks guys

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by Snerek

my theory skills are good but not great.

we've got a 2 chord progression and i'm going to be taking a solo of it, what are some good modes/scales/keys i can work with?

1st chord = AMaj7

2nd chord = EMaj7


cool progression, but what key is this is? and what modes/scales fit?

thanks guys

What style of music?

Try playing a F# Aeolian over the A, and an F Dorian over the E.

Try playing an Ionian or a jazz melodic over both, but emphasize the respective 7, 9, 11 and 13th notes of the scales rather than the basic arpeggio notes. Throw in some b5's as passing tones between a 5 and a 4, or vice versa, and do the same with the thirds as passing tones between the 9 and 11.

Or try the blues scale for both, and screw the Major 7th - it's your solo dammit!

[joroched]

I,m new to playing, but I know my scales. You're probably in E which makes A the 4th, or Lydian mode. Lots of Eb, Ab, and Bs along with the root notes.
Have fun!

[Snerek]

its a jazz breakdown so my solo should be jazzy

[tZer]

I made this litte "tell me what mode to use" app about a year ago... It is not by any means perfect, but it give me ideas whenever I use it.

Try it and let me know if it helps

http://mydigitalinnerchild.com/_xfer...rator_v04.html

[bocasfx]

Here are some links I've been using to improve my improvisation, maybe the will be useful for you, specially the second one.

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html
http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/p...rimer-4-7.html
http://www.jazzbooks.com/jazzhandbook/Default.htm
http://www.petethomas.co.uk/jazz-theory.html
http://www.apassion4jazz.net/index.html

[joroched]

Originally Posted by tZer

I made this litte "tell me what mode to use" app about a year ago... It is not by any means perfect, but it give me ideas whenever I use it.

Try it and let me know if it helps

http://mydigitalinnerchild.com/_xfer...rator_v04.html

That's pretty cool stuff. I'm saving it .

Thanks

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by joroched

I,m new to playing, but I know my scales. You're probably in E which makes A the 4th, or Lydian mode. Lots of Eb, Ab, and Bs along with the root notes.
Have fun!

How do you get Eb, Ab or B over an AMaj7 chord? For that matter, how do you get a B in any chord along with an Ab and an Eb. Or how do you get an Ab or an Eb in either the key of A or E? How can you possibly guess that he's in E? It's much more likely he's in A, and E is the fifth.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by joroched

That's pretty cool stuff. I'm saving it .

Thanks

It ain't perfect - and the topic of "modes and how they're used" is a much debated topic around here, but I have found this little toy pretty fun and sort of useful. It at least offers an idea of what you can do when you may not have one leaping to you mind right away.

[joroched]

How do you get Eb, Ab or B over an AMaj7 chord? For that matter, how do you get a B in any chord along with an Ab and an Eb. Or how do you get an Ab or an Eb in either the key of A or E? How can you possibly guess that he's in E? It's much more likely he's in A, and E is the fifth.

Eb is the 7th in EM, Ab is the 7th in AM, B is the 5th in EM, if the key is A, the 5th would be E7, a dominent, or Mixolydian. In E, the 4th mode has a #4th, same as the 7th note in an EM7. I'm no solo artist, but, like I said before, theory nutcase.

[tZer]

jorched... symantics here, but Eb is not the 7th of E Maj... D# is.

Same thing with Ab (G#) and A Maj.

Same-difference in a way I know, but that is why folks'll start pickin' at ya... and it does matter when you want to discuss things and not have silly "6 of one, half-a-dozen of the other" arguments clouding the air.

[joroched]

Originally Posted by tZer

jorched... symantics here, but Eb is not the 7th of E Maj... D# is.

Same thing with Ab (G#) and A Maj.

Same-difference in a way I know, but that is why folks'll start pickin' at ya... and it does matter when you want to discuss things and not have silly "6 of one, half-a-dozen of the other" arguments clouding the air.

Maybe off topic a bit, but I think we got some great advice already. Would you explain why a Eb should be called a D# instead? I'm confused on that.

or are ya just Tzerin me

[DocBop]

You could treat both a Ionian, or Lydian. Also both as Major Pentatonic. Add some color use arpeggio from the 3rd of each chord so A would use C# minor7. That will give a Ma7 sound. I like playing major triad from the ii of the chord. For A that would be a B major triad. That implies a 6/9 #11 sound. Always throw in the b3 to add some Blues sound you will hear that in all Jazz solos at some point. Bebop Major scale (add the #4 to the major scale) is cool sound. On the E going to A you could use some Dominant type sounds since it is a V->I type change. E Blues resolving to A Lydian would sound good. Also some on the E chord play some Bb7 stuff again tritone sub of E and resolving down to the A. Remember avoid playing the notes E and A and if you do put them on weak beats. Don't forget our old friend chromatic. Look for the D# and use it to your advantage its the one note changing between the two major scales. These are some pretty vanilla changes so using intervals like major or major pent in 4th would add some life. I'm like Pat Martino I hate soloing over major chords so pull out all your great minor licks and use them from II, III, and VI of each chord. Remember what Victor Wooten says as bass players we are only instrument that can groove. Leave some space in the solo to groove. Do like a Marcus Miller drop down and play a few notes of groove then pop back up for a lick or two.

Hope something in that replie helps you find a couple notes you like.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by joroched

Maybe off topic a bit, but I think we got some great advice already. Would you explain why a Eb should be called a D# instead? I'm confused on that.

or are ya just Tzerin me

Not tzerin' you at all. The proper key signature for E Major is:
F# C# G# D#



If you tried to write out an E maj. scale using flats, you get a "double-note-name" debacle as well as the appearance of note skipping. Like so:

E Gb Ab A B Db Eb E << Don't look quite right, does it?

E F# G# A B C# D# E << Better, right?

So the 7th degree of an E Maj. scale is D#, not Eb.

Dig it?

[joroched]

Gotcha! Looks are everything.
Thanks

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by joroched

Gotcha! Looks are everything.
Thanks

It's all about communication - if a girl online wrote to you and said "i lik u" you wouldn't know if she was saying I lick you, I like you or I am like you.

A D# and an Eb may be the same note aurally, but they have different meanings when used in a "sentence."

[lowerclef]

Originally Posted by BillMason

It's all about communication - if a girl online wrote to you and said "i lik u" you wouldn't know if she was saying I lick you, I like you or I am like you.

We can only hope she's saying "I lick you."

[cowsgomoo]

the original poster could be forgiven for being just as confused as when he first asked his question... people need to seriously think about what's best for the person asking the question before leaping in with information that's dubious, extremely debatable, or just plain wrong...

first of all, someone suggested "Try playing a F# Aeolian over the A, and an F Dorian over the E."

ok, we all know there are technically no 'right' or 'wrong' notes, just more and less tense ones, but as advice to someone beginning to solo and to someone who indicated he was looking for diatonic scales & modes, this is way out... listen to what the notes of F# Aeolian over Amaj7 followed by F Dorian over Emaj7 actually sound like:

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~cows/clip1.mp3 (187k)

say no more... this bunch of notes might work in a modern jazz context where everyone has insane ears but as the first suggestion to someone wanting to piece together a basic solo, it's sending him completely down the wrong path


next we have someone who got the diatonic key correct (E) but who spoilt it by suggesting that the original poster could use Ab's and Eb's.. which is confusing to anyone who thought that E major had 4 sharps in it...


here's my advice (feel free to correct me)... play the chord sequence on a keyboard and listen to it going round and round... you'll hear it settling on E major... stop playing the chords and sing to yourself the root of the key (the note you feel it's resolving to)... you'll find it's an 'E'... so you're in E major... and the theory backs it up: the notes used so far are: A, B, C#, D#, E & G#... the only major key these are all diatonic notes in is E major...

"It's much more likely he's in A, and E is the fifth."

NO! you can play A major over it and have it sound good especially if you wiggle that D natural in a bluesy way but by default you should NOT be advising the OP that this is probably in the key of A major


start off with the notes from the key of E major... so you're effectively playing A lydian over the Amaj7 chord and E major/E Ionian over the Emaj7 chord... to answer the OP's question, those are the notes that fit the key... any other note is non-diatonic and can be used but the notes from E major are your starting point

play around with those notes (E F# G# A B C# D#) first of all... if you haven't got a recording of the chord sequence, then download this one (which is a bit cheesy but demonstrates the chords) and play along with it

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~cows/vamp-02.mp3 (1355k)

i'm not saying you can't play obviously 'out' things (like F Dorian over Emaj7), but your starting point should be the diatonic notes of the home key (E major)... the first chromatic alterations from this that you should probably get familiar with are the flattened 3rds and 7ths of the chords... i.e. play along with the vamp and throw in G, C & D naturals.. you'll get a feel for when you can use them..

[tZer]

Cowsgomo - good advice in general regarding people jumping on the "hey, try this" bandwagon and filling the thread with other-than-useful info. It would be nice if everyone posted nothing but perfect answers.

(BTW - I find your suggestions to be VERY good and useful in this thread! No corrections here!)

But some folks who are answering don't really know that what they are offering is off-base until they offer it and are shown the error of their ways - politely. I am rather certain that when they were posting their suggestions, they really believe they were offering something of value based on their experience.

They too get to benefit from the OP's question by sharing their thoughts and having other folks either expand upon or help clarify what they posted, tweaking and refining the aspects that my not have hit the mark. At least one person now knows the reason that Eb is not found in an E major scale.

The subsequent corrections and qualifications to the comments of others help to make a technically incorrect, but well-intentioned, comment better and more useful for everyone.

To the OP - as you will find if you search on "modes", "Improvising", "soloing", "chord changes" and so on, there are TONS of technically correct (tied to music theory) ways to play the "right notes" in over a chord or within the key signature of a piece of music. There are equally as many technically/theoreticaly ambiguous, but just as useful methods for inventing solos, improvs, walking lines and parts that "break the rules" but somehow still seem to create great parts in spite of "technical/theoretical incorrectness".

And BTW, I find that Cowsgomoo has a lot of good and useful things to say in general. I have found many of his comments to be very useful and I always like to read what he has to say.

Keep playing - keep trying - use your ears - listen to others - and don't stop asking questions. The ability to craft great parts comes just as much from experience and listening as it does from understanding music theory.

Just don't run off and take the first answer you get here as THE answer. But if someone's suggestion works for you, be sure to share that with us.