Help with a Chord

Cacklingjackyl · #1 01-11-2005, 09:14 AM

My rhythm guitarist seems to be playing some sort of an F chord (I believe) in a song, and I can quite pick out what scale to use under it. He plays the F chord (the rudiamentary one you 1st learn on guitar, but picks his middle and ring fingers up). In other words, he plays the F note on the high E string, the C on the B string, and he plays both the D and G strings open. The low E and A string are not strummed. I have been playing a groove that fits with the drummers kick in F major, but I am not so sure that this is the best choice. Anyone know what type of chord this may be, or what other scale choices could be used?

Thanks.

Mel Monihan · #2 01-11-2005, 09:25 AM

If you arrange the notes in thirds, it spells G-B-D-C or G11. If you play an F in the bass, you are playing the 7th of the G11 chord (which actually works), but it will give you a dissonant sound, neat though.Always try to arrange the notes of a chord in thirds if possible to find out what the actual root of the chord should be.That does not say that you have to play that note in the bass, that will spell out the chord for you.

refinedbass · #3 01-11-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel Monihan

If you arrange the notes in thirds, it spells G-B-D-C or G11.

Great post Mel, but he said that the guitar player is playing an F on 1st(High E) string. So, actually the notes being played are F-C-D-G. If you rearrange them they would be G-C-D-F. It would actually be a "G7sus4"

Cacklingjackyl · #4 01-11-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel Monihan

If you arrange the notes in thirds, it spells G-B-D-C or G11. If you play an F in the bass, you are playing the 7th of the G11 chord (which actually works), but it will give you a dissonant sound, neat though.Always try to arrange the notes of a chord in thirds if possible to find out what the actual root of the chord should be.That does not say that you have to play that note in the bass, that will spell out the chord for you.

Guess my lack of a theoretical background shows. Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to apply this same thing when similar situations arise.

Lyle Caldwell · #5 01-11-2005, 09:46 AM

Could be G7sus4.

Or C7sus4.

Or Dm7 add 11.

Or F6 add 9 (unlikely).

You don't know unless you look at what the melody is doing and what the chord before and after this section is.

refinedbass · #6 01-11-2005, 09:55 AM

Here is a link that you can plug in your guitar players chord shape and it will tell you what chord it actually is. when I plugged it in it was G7sus or G7sus4.

Lyle, it could also be the Dm7+11, but it couldn't be the C7sus b/c there is no Bb to complete that chord structure

Mel Monihan · #7 01-11-2005, 10:00 AM

Thanks guys, I can't believe I missed that.Another senior moment...Don't get old guys.

Cacklingjackyl · #8 01-11-2005, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyle Caldwell

Could be G7sus4.

Or C7sus4.

Or Dm7 add 11.

Or F6 add 9 (unlikely).

You don't know unless you look at what the melody is doing and what the chord before and after this section is.

Is a three chord part the plays the mystery chord, then Am, then C, and back to the mystery chord.

refinedbass · #9 01-11-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacklingjackyl

Is a three chord part the plays the mystery chord, then Am, then C, and back to the mystery chord.

then my guess would be that it is definitely be the G7sus4

Richard Lindsey · #10 01-11-2005, 10:12 AM

While we're doing the chord theory dance (my fave), I suppose it could also be a Bb6/9 minus the root (i.e., with the root left to the bassist to play). Conceivable in the key of F, but perhaps not terribly likely. You'd really have to hear how the thing is functioning, or is supposed to function, in the song.

Cacklingjackyl · #11 01-11-2005, 10:14 AM

Thanks for all that input. You guys are good. I should probably look into some chord studies at some point.

Cacklingjackyl · #12 01-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

While we're doing the chord theory dance (my fave), I suppose it could also be a Bb6/9 minus the root (i.e., with the root left to the bassist to play). Conceivable in the key of F, but perhaps not terribly likely. You'd really have to hear how the thing is functioning, or is supposed to function, in the song.

I'll mess around with all this information at practice and let you know what I think sounds best with the chord.

Lyle Caldwell · #13 01-11-2005, 01:25 PM

Doh! I was looking at the mistaken B in the post above mine, and then went ahead and flattened it. Doh!

Csus4 add 9.

But yeah, in context, I'd bet on the G7sus4.

Joe P · #14 01-11-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacklingjackyl

I'll mess around with all this information at practice and let you know what I think sounds best with the chord.

Right. But at least ONCE say to the guitarist "Wait-a-sec, Man - Take it back to the jee-seven-suspended-four once", then silence. The silence-part is important.

You'll love the moment, I bet.

Joe

Cacklingjackyl · #15 01-11-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe P

Right. But at least ONCE say to the guitarist "Wait-a-sec, Man - Take it back to the jee-seven-suspended-four once", then silence. The silence-part is important.

You'll love the moment, I bet.

Joe

I've been ripping him a little about not knowing what the chord was, then asking me to play under it with no vocal or other harmony over that particular chord. The problem though, was that I could not figure it out either. It made me feel sort of like him-- clueless.

JimK · #16 01-11-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacklingjackyl

My rhythm guitarist seems to be playing some sort of an F chord (I believe) in a song, and I can quite pick out what scale to use under it. He plays the F chord (the rudiamentary one you 1st learn on guitar, but picks his middle and ring fingers up). In other words, he plays the F note on the high E string, the C on the B string, and he plays both the D and G strings open. The low E and A string are not strummed.

If he played ONLY the "F" while playing the "D"-"G"-"B" as OPEN...that is 'the basic' G7 chord that most learn very early(ya gotta admit, it's easier to finger than most of the other "beginner" chords).
So, your guy is adding a "C"...I guess it can still hinge on 'FUNCTION' + YOUR bass note; it does look like a G7sus4(Note: there's no 3rd [in this case, a "B"] with a sus chord).

The good thing about playing with a guiatrist who doesn't use the "E" & "A" for voicing chords...you get a lotta freedom as a bassist. Listen to Steve Khan & Anthony Jackson on the early Eyewitness band material.

Richard Lindsey · #17 01-11-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacklingjackyl

I've been ripping him a little about not knowing what the chord was, then asking me to play under it with no vocal or other harmony over that particular chord. The problem though, was that I could not figure it out either. It made me feel sort of like him-- clueless.

Don't feel bad. It's kind of an ambiguous cluster of notes the way it's voiced. Technically, it is, as others have said, a G7sus4, but you could play a D, C, Bb, G, or F under it without sounding dissonant. In essence, what you play as a bass note will determine how this chord acts in the song. So try some different things and see which one is the sound that the writer and the band are looking for.

f'nar f'nar · #18 01-11-2005, 10:53 PM

Can someone please tell me where they're learning all this theory from??? I shat myself at the first reply! Hahaha, guess I really should put the bass down for a bit and do some theory... anyone know any good books/sites/sources for a bit of heavy theory-ism?

Mel Monihan · #19 01-12-2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f'nar f'nar

Can someone please tell me where they're learning all this theory from??? I shat myself at the first reply! Hahaha, guess I really should put the bass down for a bit and do some theory... anyone know any good books/sites/sources for a bit of heavy theory-ism?

Why right here of course.There are some monster players and teachers right on this forum.Do a search, or just post a help wanted and you'll get quite a response.Just don't ask me 'cause I can't seem to read anymore.Hahaha.
There are alot of people here who can put you on the right path. Good luck.

Cacklingjackyl · #20 01-12-2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f'nar f'nar

Can someone please tell me where they're learning all this theory from??? I shat myself at the first reply! Hahaha, guess I really should put the bass down for a bit and do some theory... anyone know any good books/sites/sources for a bit of heavy theory-ism?

I feel the same way. Most of the guys chiming in have been playing for a long time and/or probably have some formal music training. I need to expand my knowledge of theory as well. I just found a teacher that used to teach in the jazz department of a local university, and just bought The Jazz Theory Book, by Mark Levine. Everyone says its well worth the price. It should be here any day. Other than that, my very limited knowledge comes from some classes at www.musicdojo.com. Check it out.