Help with direction, please

[Groovist]

Hi, im new hear and was wondering if I could get some advise

I have been playing for 7 years solidly and practice 3-4 hours a day and am very dedicated.

Lately tho I have been asking my self if there's much point in practicing at all, as I constantly keep meeting people who can play and improvise amazinging well, and hardly pick up there instrument when there at home or have free time.

Has anyone else got any tips on how they view this issue or is there something im missing ?

My practice routine is pretty much solid (or so I think) - learning tunes buy ear, metronome studies, real book stuff so on.

Maybe I just am missing the talent part *sigh*

Thanks
Sam

[Merchant]

I practice nowhere near enough, and I suck.
So I think it's better to keep up the practice.
Improv is not that hard to make sound good, I think all you need is a change in routine, ie giving yourself an hour of improv instead of Real book. I tend to do this as I lack the patience to learn pieces, I just learn the theory and muck about. That's why I'm gonna fail as a musician

[awakefie]

Everyone's a better bass player than me, but I don't know of anyone that enjoys playing more.

Work to get better for you. Are you achieving your goals (whatever they might be, gigging, theory, flexibility, etc...)?

[Groovist]

yea maybe your right, but theres always so much pressure to know all the jazz standards off by heart, round my area.

maybe i need a brain transplant lol

[DocBop]

My old jazz teacher after playing 50 years still practices daily. Your practice routine changes the longer you play. As you build up the years of experience you might to a few minutes of warmup/refresher exercises daily, but the bulk of your practice moves into move musical things versus instrument specific. You work on composing because composing and improve are basically the same thing. You work on tunes some you have played for decades, but looking for new paths thru the tune. Transcribe and analyze artist you admire and study their approach. You start living the life of a musician. Spending time exploring music, enjoying life, and playing gigs.

[billjr]

I've only been playing for two years, so, honestly, every bass I hear is way better than me. Get's kind of depressing at times. I've done (did) a great job with the technique and scales, but still lack the talent or ability to improvise or just throw in those quick yet so effective licks and runs between chord changes.

As bad as I think I am, what really got me motivated to keep plugging on was when I went and jammed with a band. I basically stuck with root notes, as I had never played most of the songs, but layed down a solid rythm and groove with my right hand thumping. I couldn't believe the response I got. One of the guys told me I was the best bass player they had ever played with. Two days later I got a call form the lead guitarist asking me to join them permanently and work towards playing out at some area bars.

This has got me more motivated than ever to buckle down on my practice and get better. Now that I'm getting back into working on my technique exercises, I realize how my skills had regressed. I had gotten lazy, and was just playing along with CDs, the same dozen songs that I memorized last year. Now I 'm really working on my playing skills, theory, and learning many more new songs. Without this continued practice, I would be getting worse and worse.

At my age, 46, I don't see my abilities ever getting on par with the many other bass players I hear, but I will get good enough to satisfy my desire to play with my band, and help them make some great music. Practice is key. Don't ever stop practicing.

[DogPlaysBass]

Groovist, never let yourself think you are lacking talent.

In your situation, often the cause of frustration is an overlooked subtlety in your playing that has now dropped beneath the surface.

These kind of subtleties are different for every player. The ones who have developed them are the ones who really shine. The ones who don't know they exist often question themselves, when lack of talent is rarely the case.

However, I have good news for you. When these subtleties(maybe just one) are found, it will infect your playing from the root level and often this can be all a player needs to turn his whole approach around.

What you need to do first is examine your technique, because if you have physical hang ups, that feeling you want will never quite find you. Only by using an approach designed to find out where your technique is lacking will you be able to diagnose your problem, let alone fix it.

In regards to metronome practice, could you be more specific as to how you practice with it? Many players simply put the click to 120 and play through some standards and think this will help them improve their time. This is like using a band aid to treat a gunshot wound. If you are not using progressive exercises for practicing time then you will never feel comfortable. Most bass players don't have solid time.

I have solutions that can help you.

[Groovist]

cheers for the support so far!

DogPlaysBass, as far as metronome studies i used to have a click on at around 60 bpm and to chromatic ex, i used to also play around with playing in front and behind the click and now I'm trying to play arp's wile singing and naming the notes as i go up the neck

can you suggest any good ways of finding faults in my playing ?


Thanks again every one!!!

[DogPlaysBass]

With the metronome, can you play directly on the click to the point where you can't hear it? Try to only play one note per click, and see if you can nail it. Try not to subdivide in your head.

The trick with developing good time is to gain both a wider and narrower perspective of time. 60bpm is good, but if you have been doing it for a while, you should switch to 30. And once that gets easy you should switch to 15.

I remember I practiced for two weeks solid at 10bpm, and when I played a gig it was as if the dance floor got packed immediately. Not only that, but I distinctly remember my feet feeling like they were more solidly attached to the ground.

The explanation for gaining at sharper perspective of time gets a little more complicated, so I will save that one for later.

On the technical side, play a line that is usually hard for you and notice which part of your body gets tense. That is where you start. Problems may be more subtle, but often just following the muscle tension will lead you right to it.

Let me know what you find.

[Stumbo]

Have you recorded your practicing?
Are you in a band? With all your practicing, setting a goal to play some gigs is a great motivating factor and confidence builder.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Groovist

I constantly keep meeting people who can play and improvise amazingly well, and hardly pick up there instrument when there at home or have free time.

Being in a band is so much more than raw talent.

Check out the following TB threads:

If only I knew then what I know now... If I only knew then what I know now...
Best musical advice you ever got Best musical advice

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Groovist

Maybe I just am missing the talent part *sigh*

At a certain point, with a lot of practice, each of us pretty much gets "as good as we can get" as far as our talent goes, just like in any sport or other profession.

Over time, it's really up to your own judgment whether or not you accept your talent level and keep playing because of your enjoyment of music. I enjoy basketball but will never be as good as Magic Johnson.

Sure you have to realistic about your playing level but continually comparing yourself to others, while helpful if you learn something, can ruin your confidence /self-esteem because there's always someone better than you.

If you love music, do it for yourself. In the end, that's all there really is.

[LaughingGroove]

Originally Posted by Groovist

Lately tho I have been asking my self if there's much point in practicing at all, as I constantly keep meeting people who can play and improvise amazinging well, and hardly pick up there instrument when there at home or have free time.

Or so they say......chances are they are practicing more than they tell you.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Groovist

I have been playing for 7 years solidly and practice 3-4 hours a day and am very dedicated.

have you been gigging with a band during that time?

because my experience has been that regular playign with a group -esp a group of more experienced musicians- is the "golden road" to real practical improvement.

I think it's because playing/practicing on your own leaves you such a wide open choice about what to focus on, while the realities of gigging force you to buckle down and focus on what is practical for getting those tunes in your head/heart/hands.

[E2daGGurl]

Sounds like it's really time to find some people to jam with. Even just one person - a drummer or a guitar player.

Getting the rhythm going with a drummer really improves that ability to improvise.

Getting a guitar player to provide melodies for you to jam to - priceless.

I totally agree with Mambo that it's the golden road to improvement/finding talent/heart.

[steve66]

Playing the jazz standards is great practice. You can spend years dissecting and analyzing them also.

A great practicing tool IMO is Band in a Box.

[Pacman]

With those jazz standards, can you arpeggiate your way through each chord? Can you play all permutations of those arpeggios (1357, 3157, 3571, 3715, 5137, 5371, etc, etc, etc)? How about scale fragments though each chord (123, 345, 1765)? Do you know the melody cold?

Seriously, you can work on this stuff for years - as soon as you can do the above, find a way to make it harder again. If you sound good in the practice room, you're not practicing?

My advice: find a teacher.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Groovist

I have been playing for 7 years solidly and practice 3-4 hours a day

Calculating total hours of practice:
---------------------------------
3.5 hours x 365 days = 1,277.50 (round down to 1,000 hrs per year)

1,000 hrs per year x 7 years = 7,000 hours total practice.

That's a whole lot of hours of practice. Maybe you need to review what/how you practice.

+100 Get a teacher

[Groovist]

Every one thanks so much for all the ideas, my out look is much more positive

firstly stumbo - wow you have really put into perspective how much time i spend on my instrument !! so what i have done now is structure my practice sessions, i.e 15 mins on warm up, 30 mins on ear training and so on.

pacman - yea ive been working on arp'ing over standards but not doing permutations, so ill have a crack at that, but ive been analyzing my playing and i think trying to memorize/feel my way through the progression is something i need to work on more and not just play from the real book.

and every body else , im in a few bands and play with a set group of musicians but i think every one is right i need to play at more jam nights with random musicians, which i think will help the most as to play with the drummers should be one of my main goals as a bass player !

but once again i feel blessed that so many people have given some time to write a comment. Thanks and its inspired me to keep a eye out for anyone i can help on Talk bass

[phatbass]

Originally Posted by Groovist

can you suggest any good ways of finding faults in my playing ?


Thanks again every one!!!

Yes we all need to practice and improve, and OBJECTIVE self-criticism of our playing is extremely important but one big mistake I think a lot of players make is to concentrate on what's wrong with their playing to the exclusion of everything else.

I know it sounds a bit hippy-trippy to some folks, and it took me years to realise it, but you should spend at least a bit of your time and energy patting yourself on the back for the things you do well, and I guarantee that if you look truly objectively there will be lots of things you do well.

And I really DON'T mean go on a huge ego-trip and ignore areas that need work, but with true humility, and, yes, a little bit of ego, you'll start to take a more balanced view of your abilities.

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