HELP, i cant JAMM!! AHHHHHHHHHHH

[bobbth]

ok so i was sitting down with a few friends the other day and some how we got onto the subject of music and i found out one of them plays drums and the other sucks at guitar. anyway ive been playing bass about six months and im taking lessons about once a fortnite and im not very good at all

we got togeather and i discovered that i suck at jammin and i cant make up bass lines for s**t so im stuck to playing bare root notes. we started plaing and i found we only play heavier stuff like rock and light metal although we have strayed into jazz-ish many times

i have no ideah how to work with a drum or a guitar i know some basic theory and i can play comfotably at speed as long as i know wat i playing. oh and i can sorta slap if that helps.
can i have some advise and/or help please?

thankyou

[fenderphil]

you just have to feel it.

vocals help alot. i tend to play off the vocals alot in creative sessions.

[mutedeity]

Like anything else, "jamming" takes practice. The more you do it, the more comfortable you are with it. You also have to be aware that what you are doing is having a musical conversation. Listen to what everyone else is saying in that conversation and over time you will all develop a way of responding to each other. Also, try basing some of your ideas on the concepts you are developing with your teacher, even bring the subject up with the teacher and ask them to help you develop some simple ideas to base your jam ideas on.

[JEDI BASS]

The one and ONLY teacher I had years ago, for 2 whole lessons, couldn't have free-jammed to save his life! He was the classic example of how musical education can (for some) hinder musical expression..... he couldn't feel or improvise. I had been improvising since day one, because I started playing bass to help form a band, thank God! I went to him w/ a question about one of our original songs, and he said he couldn't help me. He'd never written original music and only played what was on paper in front of him. How sad! Nowadays there are classes, for music majors, on improv and free jamming.... I assume he'd never had them.

My advise, for starters....just learn the blues scale and apply it to the guitar chords being played. Move around inside the scale and find notes that sound good to you. Find some notes to bridge the chord changes, and try to follow the drum patterns while plucking these notes, primarily the bass drum hits. If you've got natural ability and tallent, you should take off. If not, then be careful about the instructors you choose! Don't let anybody de-mystify music and turn it into a boring science. It's magical, it's art, there are no rules, just commonly accepted norms. I've played in bands for nearly 20 years. And, personally if I had to count while playing, I'd find another hobby! GOOD LUCK

[Parabolic Box]

Know your chords (or arpeggios), and know simple combinations like root, fifth, octave, or root, fifth, flat seventh, and just build simple basslines off that. Rhythm is more important than a variety of notes in the beginning, so if you could build a BITCHIN' bassline with just the root note of the chord, more power to you.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by JEDI BASS

The one and ONLY teacher I had years ago, for 2 whole lessons, couldn't have free-jammed to save his life! He was the classic example of how musical education can (for some) hinder musical expression..... he couldn't feel or improvise. I had been improvising since day one, because I started playing bass to help form a band, thank God! I went to him w/ a question about one of our original songs, and he said he couldn't help me. He'd never written original music and only played what was on paper in front of him. How sad! Nowadays there are classes, for music majors, on improv and free jamming.... I assume he'd never had them.

My advise, for starters....just learn the blues scale and apply it to the guitar chords being played. Move around inside the scale and find notes that sound good to you. Find some notes to bridge the chord changes, and try to follow the drum patterns while plucking these notes, primarily the bass drum hits. If you've got natural ability and tallent, you should take off. If not, then be careful about the instructors you choose! Don't let anybody de-mystify music and turn it into a boring science. It's magical, it's art, there are no rules, just commonly accepted norms. I've played in bands for nearly 20 years. And, personally if I had to count while playing, I'd find another hobby! GOOD LUCK

While I agree with your point that you need to be careful who you hire as a teacher, I hardly agree with you that musical education hinders creativity. If your teacher wasn't able to advise you in those matters he probably wasn't really qualified to teach anyway. If they were incapable of creative expression, then no amount of musical education would enable them. On the other hand a person that uses their "musical education" to enhance thier creativity can only be enabled by their knowledge rather than be limited by what they don't know.

Once again, let's not make this another beat up on learning theory thread. There is really nothing to be gained by discouraging anyone from expanding their horizons as long as they are learning relevant information.

I think that telling someone to learn the blues scale or any other given scale is a bit misleading. It's not about which scale you learn it's about learning how to make associations with interval relationships. Playing and jamming with your friends is one way to help you develop this understanding though you will be limited by the context of your experience, and learning relative theory and application is another. Put the two together and you have the best of both worlds.

[JEDI BASS]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

While I agree with your point that you need to be careful who you hire as a teacher, I hardly agree with you that musical education hinders creativity.
Once again, let's not make this another beat up on learning theory thread.
I think that telling someone to learn the blues scale or any other given scale is a bit misleading.

I hear ya. That's why I said musical ed "for some" can hinder. And, I wouldn't dis learning theory....I've been teaching myself theory off-and-on for years now. I just lean more toward the "feel it" end of the spectrum. And since the OP seemed to want to do more than play root notes, and he plays rock..... the blues scale would quickly give him/her options while free-jamming.

[jarroc]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

While I agree with your point that you need to be careful who you hire as a teacher, I hardly agree with you that musical education hinders creativity. If your teacher wasn't able to advise you in those matters he probably wasn't really qualified to teach anyway. If they were incapable of creative expression, then no amount of musical education would enable them. On the other hand a person that uses their "musical education" to enhance thier creativity can only be enabled by their knowledge rather than be limited by what they don't know.

Once again, let's not make this another beat up on learning theory thread. There is really nothing to be gained by discouraging anyone from expanding their horizons as long as they are learning relevant information.

I think that telling someone to learn the blues scale or any other given scale is a bit misleading. It's not about which scale you learn it's about learning how to make associations with interval relationships. Playing and jamming with your friends is one way to help you develop this understanding though you will be limited by the context of your experience, and learning relative theory and application is another. Put the two together and you have the best of both worlds.

I can't agree more with this sentiment. Learning (and internalizing) the theory behind the music allowed me to create my own musical "vocabulary." You MUST understand what you are doing, what you are playing. Otherwise, you are just throwing notes out there.

Understanding theory allows you to play within a "harmonic" framework. It allows you to know the foundation upon which you are playing. It's actually not restricting, it's liberating. I can't emphasize enough that you must have (at least) a cursory understanding of music theory (unless you're a genius, in which case it's totally intuitive) in order to really "jam."

[JEDI BASS]

Originally Posted by jarroc

I can't agree more with this sentiment. Learning (and internalizing) the theory behind the music allowed me to create my own musical "vocabulary." You MUST understand what you are doing, what you are playing. Otherwise, you are just throwing notes out there.

Understanding theory allows you to play within a "harmonic" framework. It allows you to know the foundation upon which you are playing. It's actually not restricting, it's liberating. I can't emphasize enough that you must have (at least) a cursory understanding of music theory (unless you're a genius, in which case it's totally intuitive) in order to really "jam."

Don't take this wrong. I'm not being insulting or disrespectful. I just want you to realize what you wrote and how it sounds. "You MUST" understand what you are doing??? I mean, this isn't brain surgery. Most of my favorite bass players can't even read music, and they're awesome, famous musicians. I dunno.... personally I wish I'd had time before kids and marriage to get a music degree. But, I seem to do just fine playin' rock by intuition and what I've taught myself, and with the small amount of God-given ability that I was blessed with. And, like I've said, I'm not a theory-basher. I just agree with Billy Sheehan, jamming with a band is the best teacher. The OP wanted some help with that. I gave my opinion and observations. I've been playing in bands for a long time, and never been turned away after an audition...... I think my "OPINION" is valid.

[jarroc]

Originally Posted by JEDI BASS

Don't take this wrong. I'm not being insulting or disrespectful. I just want you to realize what you wrote and how it sounds. "You MUST" understand what you are doing??? I mean, this isn't brain surgery. Most of my favorite bass players can't even read music, and they're awesome, famous musicians. I dunno.... personally I wish I'd had time before kids and marriage to get a music degree. But, I seem to do just fine playin' rock by intuition and what I've taught myself, and with the small amount of God-given ability that I was blessed with. And, like I've said, I'm not a theory-basher. I just agree with Billy Sheehan, jamming with a band is the best teacher. The OP wanted some help with that. I gave my opinion and observations. I've been playing in bands for a long time, and never been turned away after an audition...... I think my "OPINION" is valid.

It all depends upon what your goals are. Most rock music requires very little knowledge of theory. That's fine. There aer other areas of emphasis (eg., it still requires good time and a decent ear). But if you plan to become a complete player, one who can fill a gig, you ought to have some sort of background.

I'm not saying you need to get a Master's Degree. And I think, some of the greatest musicians in the world didn't need any theory, they just intuitively heard and understood music. But I really don't think most people are like that.

I respect that you have never been turned down at an audition. Obviously, you possess a good set of skills. But there are many, many gigs out there that can potentially challenge a really good player. And unless you possess an amazing ear, it helps to have a solid foundation of musical knowledge.

[BassXgirl]

Stay loose. I used to stiffen up with nervousness whenever I tried jamming with other players. It kept me from trying new things. So my advice is don't worry too much right now about making mistakes, play what you feel rhythmically first, even if its only two notes. Seriously, if you lock in tight with the drummer while playing your two notes, it's gonna sound good right off the bat.

You're probably learning some scales and arpeggios in your lessons, so keep up with that. Those will help give you more options as far as learning what notes fit in harmonically with the guitar player.

I'd also suggest recording your jams whenever possible. You can really learn a lot just by listening to yourself on tape.

[mutedeity]

I don't think that you necessarily must understand theory in a formal sense. As this implies I believe that theory can be both intuitive and formalised.

Intuitive theory, as I see it, is where the musician understands the context of what they are doing based on their experience and application of shapes or movements to a repertoire of tonal ideas. One of my big influences, Mick Karn, pretty much falls into this category. He was playing with musicians like David Torn and Bill Bruford while having a very rudimental understanding of formal theory. On the other hand this did apparently cause certain musicians to protest at the fact it was difficult to communicate certain musical ideas with him. The limitations on this kind of approach are down to how much experience the musician has and how many ideas they are able to retain and adapt.

For the most part, though I would say that people like Mick Karn are more the exception than the norm. I spent a lot of time as a musician, even gigging and recording with bands, like this myself.

What I find now, in hindsight on the other hand, is that a formal understanding of theory allows me to not only understand those ideas and put them into context intellectually, it also frees me up to adapt ideas more spontaneously. The difference between me playing with musicians now and then is that I can more easily understand the context of what is being said in those "musical conversations". This is not really about which notes or phrases are right or wrong either, it's about having an understanding of why certain ideas sound a certain way and how to put them into context.

Once again though it really comes down to what your objectives are as a musician and understanding how the options you give yourself will limit or enhance what you do.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by BassXgirl

Stay loose. I used to stiffen up with nervousness whenever I tried jamming with other players. It kept me from trying new things. So my advice is don't worry too much right now about making mistakes, play what you feel rhythmically first, even if its only two notes. Seriously, if you lock in tight with the drummer while playing your two notes, it's gonna sound good right off the bat.

You're probably learning some scales and arpeggios in your lessons, so keep up with that. Those will help give you more options as far as learning what notes fit in harmonically with the guitar player.

I'd also suggest recording your jams whenever possible. You can really learn a lot just by listening to yourself on tape.

Recording your jams is an excellent idea. I also agree with what you said about concentrating on your rhythmical approach. Learning to listen to everyone in the ensemble is a huge part of being good at "jamming".

[bobbth]

Hey, thanks guys
ive gotten a direction to work for now thanks heaps

[mothmonsterman]

To get better at Jamming
1. Jam More
2. Just go for it

You can supplement with lessons book, theory and the like but honestly IMO the only way to get better at jamming with other people, is to jam with them.
Everyone has patterns in how they play music, once you start noticing these (especially with your drummer) jamming becomes very intuitive.

Oh and don't worry about playing the wrong notes or on the wrong beats. Don't be afraid to throw something out there, if it works fantastic it it doesn't no harm no foul.

[bassplayinggirl]

Bobbth, you can also 'jam' along with your favorite music at home. Turn the bass down so you're not trying to copy an existing bass line, and then just go for it. (I was jamming with Clapton the other day!) The more you practice, the more comfortable you'll be next time you play with real live people.

[JEDI BASS]

Originally Posted by jarroc

It all depends upon what your goals are. Most rock music requires very little knowledge of theory. That's fine. There aer other areas of emphasis (eg., it still requires good time and a decent ear). But if you plan to become a complete player, one who can fill a gig, you ought to have some sort of background.

I'm not saying you need to get a Master's Degree. And I think, some of the greatest musicians in the world didn't need any theory, they just intuitively heard and understood music. But I really don't think most people are like that.

I respect that you have never been turned down at an audition. Obviously, you possess a good set of skills. But there are many, many gigs out there that can potentially challenge a really good player. And unless you possess an amazing ear, it helps to have a solid foundation of musical knowledge.

TRUE!! And, yeah I probly do have a great ear that's carried me all these years. I can learn covers just from listening to them a couple times, usually. I personally think I suck 'cause I'm a perfectionist with little time to become perfect, LOL!

BTW, the OP might wanna look into getting the Fender B-DEC amp. I bought it when I was between bands. Read about it. It's a teaching amp w/ a virtual band, tuner, and some effects built in and a book to follow along with. This amp combined with a good instructor......the OP will be set!!

[JEDI BASS]

Originally Posted by BassXgirl;5559783So my advice is don't worry too much right now about making mistakes, play what you feel [I

rhythmically[/i] first, even if its only two notes. Seriously, if you lock in tight with the drummer while playing your two notes, it's gonna sound good right off the bat.
I'd also suggest recording your jams whenever possible. You can really learn a lot just by listening to yourself on tape.

YES! Record yourself and LISTEN!!

[JmJ]

Originally Posted by fenderphil

you just have to feel it.

vocals help alot. i tend to play off the vocals alot in creative sessions.

+1, Be the "bridge" between the vocals and the drums.
It may sound esoteric to a beginner but try it.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by JmJ

+1, Be the "bridge" between the vocals and the drums.
It may sound esoteric to a beginner but try it.

I would probably assume that in most jamming situations there won't necessarily be a vocalist, though. In fact, probably not.