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  #1  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:55 PM
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Help me take chords progressions to the next level.

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I know my modes, scales and chords. I can sight read and also have a decent ear.

What interests me most is learning songs and understanding chords professions. Most of the time when I search for reading material on this stuff all I find is major/minor II V Is and basic tritone substitutions.

I know enough that an F6 and a Dm7 share the same notes, but then I will flip through sheet music specifically a Real Book and not be able to figure out the key.

Are there any books that take songs and explain the progressions more in-depth?
  #2  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:58 PM
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Take a look at some of the books on this website:

http://www.jazzbooks.com/
  #3  
Old 02-16-2011, 09:00 PM
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Mark Levine's Jazz Theory Book.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:19 PM
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rufus reid the evolving bassist
  #5  
Old 02-16-2011, 09:26 PM
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Books are great but so are keyboard instructors/teachers at least to get you going and bring the theory alive. Just a thought..........................
  #6  
Old 02-17-2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyIVbass View Post
.....I know enough that an F6 and a Dm7 share the same notes, but then I will flip through sheet music specifically a Real Book and not be able to figure out the key. Are there any books that take songs and explain the progressions more in-depth?
If you already know chord spelling you are more than half way there. Finding the key - look at where the chords are moving to within the song. That normally gives you some hints as to the key they fit into.

I chord can go anywhere in the progression it wants to, however, when you return to the I chord you resolve any tension you've built. That resolving of tension is the give-a-way you are looking for. Try and see what the I chord is doing. Does it end every verse? If so it has brought you back to the tonal center (or home) and that "home chord" will have the same name as your key. If you have a lot of, say C major chords, in the song, C major is probably a good candidate for being the tonic chord, i.e. look for chords used a lot, that could be your tonic.

ii chord is a sub-dominant chord and it's task in life is to move to the dominant chord. Do you have a minor chord leading to a dominant seventh chord. That's a give-a-way.

iii chord is a move somewhere chord, used to start a turn-a-round, etc. The iii normally drags the vi with it.

IV chord is also a sub-dominant chord and it's task in life, like the ii, is to move to a dominant chord. The ii and the IV both having the same task and can sub for each other. Some have the IV chord going to the tonic chord, I think of this as a "second choice" it really wants to get to the dominant chord, but, since you took it to the tonic it'll not argue with you.

V chord is the dominant chord and it's task in life is to move to the tonic I chord. V7 is the climax chord and wants to move to the tonic I chord RIGHT NOW. This V-I movement is a dead give-a-way to what key is being used. Look for the dominant seventh chord. Used correctly the dominant seventh will point you to the I tonic chord. Understand songwriters throw dominant sevenths in willie nelly thinking they are adding color.....

vi chord likes to move to a sub-dominant chord. Normally the iii-vi like each other thus the iii-vi-ii-V7-I turn-a-round. I talk about relative minor chords below. That vi may be a relative minor chord, just be aware.

viidim is also a dominant chord and it's task is to move to the tonic chord, however, unlike the V or V7 the viidim likes to take a more subtle route, i.e. if you want to resolve right away use the V or V7, but, if you want to get to the I tonic through a more subtle route as in a turn-a-round the viidim is your best bet. viidim-iii-vi-ii-V7-I. As the m7b5 chord is not used a lot, when it is, it is normally telling you something. Hopefully it will be the 7th chord in the key - thus a give-a-way. At any rate see where it is going.

To find the key look at what the chords are doing - that "like to move to what" I talked about. The V-I cadence is a give-a-way. Look at the last chord in each verse if they are the same chord, that's your key. Why? Each verse brings a thought, discusses it, reaches a conclusion, then ends this thought so the next verse can bring up another new thought. It does that by returning you back home. If each verse resolved to the same tonic chord- to end the verse - you can bet the farm that's your key.

And yes sometime you just have to play them and listen for the tonal center. Don't forget about relative minors and relative majors having the same notes and same chords - you have to see what chords are being used. C and Am. If the chords revolve around the C-F-G major chords your going to be in the key of C. If the chords revolve around the minor chords, Am-Dm-Em then the song will have a tonal center of Am. O'h yes, Harmonic and melodic minor progressions will have a major V or V7 chord

And remember songwriters do not always follow the rules, so you have to make allowances.

This all came from www.musictheory.net. Lessons - Common chord progressions.
http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/...notes_on.shtml takes the Beatles' songs and analyzes them. Worth a look.

Good luck.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 02-17-2011 at 10:52 AM.
  #7  
Old 02-17-2011, 05:23 PM
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Thanks for the books and links! Someone said awhile back to me "You have to be able to know how to make all 12 notes work over every key"

I guess I'm slowly putting that together.
  #8  
Old 02-17-2011, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyIVbass View Post
Thanks for the books and links! Someone said awhile back to me "You have to be able to know how to make all 12 notes work over every key"

I guess I'm slowly putting that together.
Better for now to make 3 notes work for each chord.
  #9  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by raymondl3 View Post
Better for now to make 3 notes work for each chord.
Yes! I practice standards with a friend and really limit myself to actually mostly just roots and 5ths to let him go wherever he wants in his solos.

I have the discipline to play simple, I just want to know I could play more.
  #10  
Old 02-18-2011, 01:51 AM
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Some basic knowledge of functional harmony will help. Many progressions are predictable to some degree.
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  #11  
Old 02-18-2011, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyIVbass View Post
Yes! I practice standards with a friend and really limit myself to actually mostly just roots and 5ths to let him go wherever he wants in his solos.

I have the discipline to play simple, I just want to know I could play more.
Well, I can tell you what really helped me, which was reading through a lot of Jazz (walking) bass line transcription books, like some of the ones available at Jazz Books. After some study you begin to collect patterns that work over the various chords found in Jazz (major 7, minor 7, dominant 7, min7b5, diminished 7) until one day you can string together those patterns for a full chorus of a Standard song. So my advice would be to go through as many of those books as you can and hook up with a teacher who is also a good player if possible.
  #12  
Old 02-20-2011, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyIVbass View Post
I know my modes, scales and chords. I can sight read and also have a decent ear.

What interests me most is learning songs and understanding chords professions. Most of the time when I search for reading material on this stuff all I find is major/minor II V Is and basic tritone substitutions.

I know enough that an F6 and a Dm7 share the same notes, but then I will flip through sheet music specifically a Real Book and not be able to figure out the key.

Are there any books that take songs and explain the progressions more in-depth?
In my earlier post I got into what chords like to do, and did not touch on what chords should do.

Chords should harmonize the melody line, i.e. they should contain some of the melody notes that are being played over them. If that happens the melody line and the chord line harmonize.

So... it's a balancing act between having a progression that moves the song through the rest, tension, climax and resolution journey each verse must take, i.e. the ole I-IV-V-I and having the melody line and the chord line harmonize each other.

Took me years to understand this and get the two parts working together. The following chart was helpful.
Trying to harmonize a melodic phrase that has moved on to new notes revolving around the second degree of the scale........

If you are trying to harmonize the ........
1 degree of the scale try I, IV, vi or ii7 chords of that key.
2 degree of the scale try V, ii7, iii7 chords of that key, as they will have the 2nd degree note in their makeup.
3 degree of the scale try I, vi, iii chords of that key.
4 degree of the scale try IV, ii, v7 chords of that key.
5 degree of the scale try V, I, iii chords of that key.
6 degree of the scale try IV, ii, vi chords of that key.
7 degree of the scale try V7, iii, Imaj7 chords of that key.

Notice how extensions come to the rescue. Extensions and sus chords will probably leave your rest, tension, climax, resolution and return to rest journey intact and still give you harmonization. See how a minor ii or iii could help.... Here is a piece on Back cycling - using the circle to fill in voids in the progression http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...hp/t-8383.html

Next spend some time at http://www.riddleworks.com/modalharm3.html for the rest of the story about how to use the correct chords under your modes.

Good luck.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 02-22-2011 at 06:36 AM.
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