help me in 'thinking' out a walking bass line

[goolimari]

Hello all,

I am working on learning walking bass lines, and i am trying to figure out how to 'think' about them..I am using the Freidland walking bass book, and he has listed out some basic formulae as to how to construct walking bass lines..

when you guys build a quarter note bass line, like say "R(oot), 5, R, Approach note" what exactly is going on in your mind?

do you think in terms of degrees and intervals like "Root, Fifth, Root, Approach" no matter what chord you are playing, locate the root, and use patterns to hit the intervals?

or do you think in terms of the actual notes? (like if you are changing from Bb to Eb, you are thinking "Bb, F, Bb, D"..?


i am kinda stuck on this one! I know ultimately i need to play "what i hear in my mind", but i got a long long long way before i get there..

-Regards

gooli

[DocBop]

Best way to work on this is sit and write your own Walking bass lines trying out the different ways and seeing how they sound. Start with a Blues or a simple Real Book tune like Autumn Leaves. Maybe just start with 8 bars of one of those. Get some staff paper mark off 8 measures, and put the chord symbols above each measure.

Now put your bass away and sit and write 8 bars of quarter note Walking Bass. If roots, fifths, and octaves are all your familiar with fine. If you understand approach notes use some. Write the whole thing without your bass write what you think will work. When done then get your bass and play it, mark the measures you don't like. Now with your bass you can fixup the measures you didn't like. Repeat till you get a line that you find acceptable. If you only did 8 bars write the next 8, if you did a whole song then either grad another sheet of paper and write another bass line or pick another tune. As you get good with the notes then start adding some rhythmic ideas other things like drops.

Doing this gets you thinking about the notes, seeing on paper and in your head how they fit together. You will probably write things you wouldn't think of with the bass in your hand. Give yourself parameters to work within like more chromatic, less chromatic, more 9ths, scale down, chromatic up and so on. Doing this helps a lot with starting to play what you think. To see theory in action. Some of the best learning is without the instrument in hand. You get real good with the bass in your head and seeing the fingerboard and if writing yourself into a technical challenge.

Do some of this everyday and it becomes easier and faster and will start writing lines you really like and will know exactly how you did it for later use. Also I think it is fun to do.

When you start working on soloing this same approach

[scothar]

If you are newbie to walking bass you have to start from the beginning. Walking bass has a whole theory, so I suggest you should use some help. A good guide I use is "fingerboard harmony for bass" by Gary Willis.

[Skel]

I'm ALWAYS thinking 1-3-5-7 played in every conceivable order possible if the song is a I-IV-V progresson. Anything else, I'm just playing parts of scales for the corresponding chord, connecting the lines together at the chord changes.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Skel

I'm ALWAYS thinking 1-3-5-7 played in every conceivable order possible if the song is a I-IV-V progresson. Anything else, I'm just playing parts of scales for the corresponding chord, connecting the lines together at the chord changes.

A simple rule of thumb is to use approach/chromatic notes ascending and scales descending.

[goolimari]

Originally Posted by DocBop

A simple rule of thumb is to use approach/chromatic notes ascending and scales descending.

Thanks all for the replies..i guess i will have to take one step at a time on this walking bass thingy..

will the guy who said "bass is easy" please stand up?!

[ThomasG]

Go check out Todd Johnson's method to approach to walking. He is in the "ask the pro" section also he has a website and his dvd's are at the "bass books" website. If you can go to one of his seminars.

[billoetjen]

But, so worth mastering.
Walking bass is one thing that us old-school country guys and the jazz guys have in common. When I study the masters, the approach is often identical. My advice is to learn lots of different techniques, practice them boldly, but perform them conservatively until you settle on a couple of tools that speak to you. You can always fall back on R, 5, R, approach and that will always sound acceptable. But learn some others so you don't get predictable.

Above all, have fun.

Bill Oetjen
billoetjen@fastermac.net

[BassChuck]

If you are walking, you're going somewhere... and so should the bassline. Think about getting to the next chord, how will you do that. Keep in mind the melodic moves that you find the strongest, and the weakest and mix them up. Getting to the next root by a fifth above or a fourth below is pretty strong, so is a half step lower. Getting to the next root by a half step above is a strong, but rather special sound (especially if you move out of the key to get that note). Droping from a whole step above is a nice polite sound. Mix them up, don't do the same thing all the time.

Playing a scale upward is cool, but has a different sound if the melody is going down or going down. Don't loose track of what you are accompanying... lots of good clues there on what to do.

Playing notes other than the root on the downbeat of the measure can be done and in fact it really helps the overall feel of the line to do that now and again. But explore how that feels to you and don't forget to note where it is in the phrase that you put that non-root note on beat one.... IMO most of the time non-root notes on beat one work best on even numbered measure within the phrase (but that's a wild generallity that should not be taken as a rule).

In the big picture your bassline should show the harmony well enough that it can be recognized. 1-3-5-7 will do that job very well, but might not give you the flow that you are looking for. And always remember: Rhythm is the most important part of music. Mess that up and you've got very little left to work with.

[DocBop]

You will discover the concepts you learn in Walking Bass can be used in any other style of music. Also they can be used in soloing. Chord tones, approach notes, scales, passing tones, symmetrical approach, chord subsitution, and so on. The core concepts don't change, only how you use them does.

[Correlli]

My walking basslines are based on ascending and descending chord patterns, and variations of this.

[Factory Owner]

Hello goolimari!

That Ed book is really great!

I also find Rufis Reid's (I'm probably spelling his name wrong) video The Evolving Bassist to provide a great foundation for walking bass!

However, theory can get you so far, and thinking only slows you down when playing music!

When I walk bass, I perceive this to be more about tension and release.

Gary Willis alludes to this in his video.

I practice this a lot, and I find that it helps me to be more free, think less, and play more interesting notes!

1. play a chord on the piano and sustain it.
2. then play a random note on your bass.
3. feel and hear where that note wants to move.

You will find that certain relationships of notes create pwerful gravity and others not so much gravity.

Music Theory, can break this down, but like I said, I feel thinking about theory just slows me down and closes my ears.

The more movement or gravity I feel with my notes, the better! This gives the walking bass line a sense of direction and leads the band better!

After exploring one chord, then I may loop 2 chords, then 3, then 4 chords, etc...

I just walk and let my bassline move.

I do understand that this way may be a bit unorthodox...I will include that I have been fired from many gigs because I did not outline the chord changes!

However, I do not regret developing my ears ever! Developing a skill to outline chord changes can be quickly obtained through disciplined practice, but developing melodic freedom on the bass by hearing tension and release takes years!

[element365]

Excelent. I'm just starting out, so I only really have a basic understanding of a few seventh chords.
1-3-5-7 is a seventh chord arpegio right?
What patterns are most usefull in improvising basslines?
I've played around with M7 Md7 m7 so far...

Where do pentatonics fit into walking basslines?

Thanks Much

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by element365

Excelent. I'm just starting out, so I only really have a basic understanding of a few seventh chords.
1-3-5-7 is a seventh chord arpegio right?

I believe he was talking more generally and not qualifying the intervals.

If you're playing on a M7 chord you should be thinking 1, 3, 5, 7
On a 7 chord you should be thinking 1, 3, 5, b7
On a m7 chord you should be thinking 1, b3, 5, b7
etc.

What patterns are most usefull in improvising basslines?

They all are

Where do pentatonics fit into walking basslines?

They don't especially. It's better to think about the chords themselves. Bear in mind though that a minor pentatonic shape is just a m7 chord with an added sixth.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by goolimari

do you think in terms of degrees and intervals like "Root, Fifth, Root, Approach" no matter what chord you are playing, locate the root, and use patterns to hit the intervals?

I would think this process would be pretty limiting and would mean you would never be able to play a smooth line between chord changes - you would just be jumping about between roots!

I think the only "trick" is to know every inversion of every chord - so you aren't root-bound in transitions!

[WillPlay4Food]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

They don't especially. It's better to think about the chords themselves. Bear in mind though that a minor pentatonic shape is just a m7 chord with an added sixth.

Actually, minor pentatonic is made up of R, b3, 4, 5, b7, R (Octave). Major pentatonic has a 6th, as in R, 3, 5, 6, R (Octave).

What I've been working on in lessons is putting together a 'toolbox' of approaches for walking bass lines. For the following examples, imagine a 12 bar blues progression. Then run through the progression using each of the different approaches below. Stick to one approach for the 12 bars so you can get a good earful of what each one sounds like. Once you get these all down to a sort of muscle memory, then you can start mix & matching to add some spice.

First there's the afore-mentioned R, 5, R, 1/2
R, R, 3, 1/2
R, R, 5, 1/2
R, R, 7, 1/2
3, R, R, 1/2 (1/2 step from 3rd of next chord)
5, R, R, 1/2 (1/2 step from 5th of next chord)
7, R, R, 1/2 (1/2 step from 7th of next chord)
R, 3, R, 1/2
R, 7, R, 1/2
R, 3, 5, 7
R, 3, 5, 1/2
R, 7, 5, 1/2
R, 7, 5, 3
and so on.

There's tons of different approaches for each chord. Something I was playing with last night was making the 4th beat of a measure a chord tone of the next measure to try and tie the two measures together and give that feeling of sliding into the next measure. Sure, a 1/2 step approach does this as well, but it seems to me to be a brick to the head where using a non-root chord tone on the 4 of the previous measure is kind of a "Exit 1/2 mile" kind of roll into the next measure, if that makes any sense. Obviously this is only what I like to hear and what I like might sound like crap to you (or this could all be so blatantly obvious that I'm exposing myself as a complete n00b) so just experiment and see how you like it.

Factory Owner's reads like a great way to develop an ear as well as internalizing the effects of different intervals. I'm going to try it out later myself. What I think I like about this is I'll throw theory out the window and just hear what notes sound good / bad / strong / dissonant / consonant / whatever without thinking about "This is a 5th and wants to resolve to the root." kind of stuff.

[PaulMacCnj]

When you use R-R-3-1/2, is the "1/2" a half step below the root of the target chord? If so, say we're playing I-IV in A. The 3rd of the A is C#, which is also a half step below the target root D. Does this mean that the approach (walking) bar following R-R-3-1/2 is A-A-C#-C#?

Sorry, I'm a bit unclear about this.

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

What I've been working on in lessons is putting together a 'toolbox' of approaches for walking bass lines. For the following examples, imagine a 12 bar blues progression. Then run through the progression using each of the different approaches below. Stick to one approach for the 12 bars so you can get a good earful of what each one sounds like. Once you get these all down to a sort of muscle memory, then you can start mix & matching to add some spice.

First there's the afore-mentioned R, 5, R, 1/2
R, R, 3, 1/2
etc.

[WillPlay4Food]

Originally Posted by PaulMacCnj

When you use R-R-3-1/2, is the "1/2" a half step below the root of the target chord? If so, say we're playing I-IV in A. The 3rd of the A is C#, which is also a half step below the target root D. Does this mean that the approach (walking) bar following R-R-3-1/2 is A-A-C#-C#?

Sorry, I'm a bit unclear about this.

You can come from either above or below. I practice doing both. In the first run through 12 bars, I'll do 1/2 step above and on the second run I'll do 1/2 step below.

As you noted, in some cases you'll end up playing the same note twice, once as the 3rd of A Major and once as the 1/2 step below going to D. You could do either A-A-C#-C#-D or A-A-C#-D#-D. Like I said, I practice both.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by goolimari

i am kinda stuck on this one! I know ultimately i need to play "what i hear in my mind", but i got a long long long way before i get there..

-Regards

gooli

But that's ultimately where you have to be, so why not start doing the work now that's going to get you there? Rather than approaching playing a walking line totally as an exercise in vocabulary, what work are you doing with your ear? what work are you doing with your physical approach?

Don't approach this as "what notes work with this chord?" but try to really hear a line with the vocabulary you already have. If you are having a hard time hearing triads then work on those. there are exercise to help get the basic sound in your ear and under your fingers, same with 4 part chords. There are exercises that will help you hear the chord changes of a song AS a song, so that you can start to hear notes that help link the progression.

Because the ONLY thing that links every note that you play so that it forms an arc from the first one to the very last one you play is being able to hear every single one of them.

There's an exercise I've posted here called a CHORD LINE (I think the thread is called REALLY LEARNING A TUNE), in addition to this there's a nice exercise in playing all 4 types of triads in all inversions and in open and closed position that helps with both ear and fingers. And then singing and identifying intervals in the first octave, then second octave. Then singing triads in all inversions in first closed, then open position.

The great thing about hearing the notes (and only playing the notes you hear) is that you don't think at all, you just stay open to the music and the moment. And that's what jazz is about, communicating what you hear, in the moment.

Not solving some kind of puzzle.

[goolimari]

Hey all, thanks for all the responses..I got some serious work to do!..

And Ed,

I dug out the link you specifind (Learning a Tune)..awesome stuff

For all those who want to take a peek, it's here

REALLY Learning a tune