Help with music? :S

[pazman10]

heyy TBer's, i'm new to this, i was just wondering, i'm learning how to play a little bit better, and i was just wondering what music/bands/musicians to listen to so it drills the sound into my head?

[Chief2112]

Listen to the music/bands/musicians that YOU like???

[pazman10]

I don't really listen to jazz/funk music, sorry I forgot to mention that point. . .I'm learning jazz?

[repoman]

huh..?

[Massimo636]

Communication breakdown.

[repoman]

...it's always the same...

[Kmonk]

So you are learning jazz but you don't listen to jazz? That's like trying to learn bass without playing a bass. If you want to improve your jazz skills you should listen to jazz. Old jazz, modern jazz anything jazz related even if it is not bass oriented.

[pazman10]

That's what I meant kmonk, i just don't know any jazz musicians :S

[neebs]

Stanley Clarke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lObVilGPjHc

I guess this is jazz fusion. I'm not hip to all the genre names.

[MalcolmAmos]

The Real Bass Book 6th edition is all jazz standards in bass clef. Not audio, however ........ for audio ask Google to pull up a video on Autumn Leaves and then look on the right hand side of the screen at what other jazz songs are available. That should get you started. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOR13-M2rc

Then below are the chords. Print off the chord chart and then while listen to the audio see what you can do on your bass following along playing the chords. Just roots right at first then add the five, then the other chord tones. Good luck, have fun.

http://www.8notes.com/chord_chart/autumn_leaves.asp

Now this is what most think of when you say jazz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdqje73KQwg Some where in the middle would be a good starting place.

[Jhengsman]

Originally Posted by pazman10

That's what I meant kmonk, i just don't know any jazz musicians :S

Get an overview album like the soundtrack for the Ken Burns documentary jazz. And by all means buy the iconic performance and check out other renditions of the songs you are assigned to learn. Just google or check in iTunes, etc the title. Should you come to like a specific era or genre of jazz then come back with a follow up question.

[Spin Doctor]

At least you're headed in the right direction. It amazes me how many people try to play music they don't listen to, and listening it probably the most important part. You have to know what the stuff sounds like, to get any clue what's going on.

If you know anyone who is into jazz, ask if they can recommend some stuff, or better, listen to it with people who are somewhat knowledgeable in it.

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by Spin Doctor

At least you're headed in the right direction. It amazes me how many people try to play music they don't listen to, and listening it probably the most important part. You have to know what the stuff sounds like, to get any clue what's going on.

If you know anyone who is into jazz, ask if they can recommend some stuff, or better, listen to it with people who are somewhat knowledgeable in it.

If you have the sheet music ... you can play the music without hearing it first. It isn't rocket science to read it and follow the instruction.

I played a lot of music that I never heard prior to playing it. Especially in classical world. You know there were a music world prior to recording where the only way to pass music was with sheet music.

[MalcolmAmos]

I've just returned from our third Saturday downtown jamming session that we have each month. With jamming I played to a bunch of songs I had no idea what the actual progression was, but..............

Playing harmony aka playing the chord tones, if you have some idea of the chord progression, you can wing a pretty good bass line to a song you have never heard before. All you need for sure is the key and then the beat.

In my World the chord progression is probably going to be one of three progressions:

• I-IV-V7-I
• I-V-I-IV-V7-I
• I-iv-ii-V7-I
• With jazz you can count on ii-V7-I

OK you know the key. Start off with a I-V7-I chord vamp till your ears tell you what progression is going to be used in this song. If you can not decide on the exact progression, notes from the tonic I's pentatonic - in a four note groove normally works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35zS1tVO3o

Major song, major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6 so R-3-6-8 is generic, to a major progression, as is R-3-5-3 or any four note groove of those pentatonic notes is going to work till the actual progression is revealed.

My point -- relax and see what you can do. Once you have the key, vamp a I-V7-I chord progression and see where that takes you. It need not be rocket science.

Have fun.

[pazman10]

Thanks so much everyone, you helped a lot!!

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

If you have the sheet music ... you can play the music without hearing it first. It isn't rocket science to read it and follow the instruction.

I played a lot of music that I never heard prior to playing it. Especially in classical world. You know there were a music world prior to recording where the only way to pass music was with sheet music.

Playing jazz from sheet music is like trying to have a conversation by writing down everything you're gonna say before you say it. I believe you need to have to have a jazz vocabulary which comes from listening. But if it seems to work for you, have at it.

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by Spin Doctor

Playing jazz from sheet music is like trying to have a conversation by writing down everything you're gonna say before you say it. I believe you need to have to have a jazz vocabulary which comes from listening. But if it seems to work for you, have at it.

You can learn the vocabulary by knowing what constitute a Bebop scale, read the "head" and read the chords ... then go with it. You could tell me ... a walking bass line is made of quater note. Normally you land on a chord on the 1, 3 or 5. You move from chord to chord by linking them in a linear way prioritizing the root, 3rd and 5th. You can also use chromatizism to move from one note to another.

My teacher at my college, told me that. Then I ran with it. wrote some cue on the head and "go" I play. Then I wrote some walking on paper and he explained what I do right and what I did wrong and why and he explained some rules.

Also if you have sheet music for RHCP or Metallica etc ... you don't need to hear it before playing it. I played a lot of classical music without hearing it first.

[Jhengsman]

We are getting close to what is jazz question. Yes we can do a RHCP tribute by reading and trying to clone Flea's performance but that goes against the improvisational spirit of jazz, in my opinion. Having McCoy Tyner and Elvin Jones play the same My Favorite Things pattern for John Coltrane and Grant Green is the exception to the rule, that everybody is reacting to what is going on around them and not with a walking pattern set in staff paper

[fdeck]

Reading music is vital to being a functioning jazz player, but I don't think you can learn jazz from sheet music if you haven't heard jazz. The notation is typically written in a short-hand that assumes you know the rhythmic conventions, such as swung eighths. This is to make the notation simpler and more readable, but also acknowledges that those rhythms are a matter of interpretation and taste.

You can't read a jazz chart and make it sound like jazz, unless you've heard jazz. The same may even be true for classical music, where there are also de facto rules of interpretation that aren't written into the text.

[Spin Doctor]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

If you have the sheet music ... you can play the music without hearing it first. It isn't rocket science to read it and follow the instruction.

I played a lot of music that I never heard prior to playing it. Especially in classical world. You know there were a music world prior to recording where the only way to pass music was with sheet music.

I get where you are coming from and agree. To an extent.

Of course you can read the head and changes to good effect. But jazz isn't about just playing heads. The essence and soul of the music is in the improvisation.

Personally, If I hear any "jazz" that is being played as though it were from an instruction manual, I'm pretty sure there would not be much going on that I'd really want to hear.

But In my humble experience, worrying about specific notes is the best way to completely suck the life out of jazz. And sheet music is 100% about notes. And as a bass player, the authenticity of a walking line comes from the vibe and the pulse. Of course music being music, there are exceptions to the guidelines, like when you have some kind of altered chord, you may want to lean on those alterations so it sounds like you know what you're doing...

But, you do realize that long before (and long after) notes on paper came along, music was passed along and communicated by listening...

So, it's all an interesting debate. And I do agree reading is pretty important. But when learning jazz, listening is so much more important and has been espoused by so many different jazz greats that any other argument to the contrary is moot. You just can't argue with the success of people like Branford Marsalis, Victor Wooten, John Pattituci. It's ludicrous to do so.

I was listening to a clinic where Patticucci was talking to some guy who wanted to learn jazz and he specifically asked him what he'd been listening to, and the guy told him the names of some rock bands, And John just kinda laughted and said that's not gonna work... You have to listen to this music to get it.

But the great thing about music is that you get to do what you want...