Help playing in "key"

akaTRENT · #1 05-15-2009, 08:48 AM

How Can I do this better. I know my circle of fifths and the modes of the major scale. how does this apply to playing in key? Everything some one says play in the key of "x" im lost. thanks.

alexwittscheck · #2 05-15-2009, 08:53 AM

Play only the notes in the Ionian mode of what ever note they are telling you. That is the major scale. That is usually what they mean. You can venture outside of these bounds if you know what you are doing. But that is a good starting place.

alexwittscheck · #3 05-15-2009, 08:54 AM

In other words, just play the notes in the major scale of "x".

deekay911 · #4 05-15-2009, 08:58 AM

More or less...and thirds and fifths are your friend too..

wildhorse · #5 05-15-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexwittscheck

In other words, just play the notes in the major scale of "x".

Wouldn't it be weird to play the Blues using the major scale?
:0

alexwittscheck · #6 05-15-2009, 08:59 AM

Absolutely. If playing the blues. Flat the 7th scale degree!! haha.

akaTRENT · #7 05-15-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexwittscheck

Absolutely. If playing the blues. Flat the 7th scale degree!! haha.

Ok so lets say. I flat 7th. the scale degree. that means. the 7th note in the scale goes a half step down?

alexwittscheck · #8 05-15-2009, 09:10 AM

Yep, exactly. Blues is a whole different animal though. I am not a blues player, so you might want to talk to someone who does it. Ha.

Jim Nazium · #9 05-15-2009, 09:12 AM

Most music that we hear today isn't strictly diatonic, meaning the notes don't all come from a single major scale. When we say that a rock or blues tune is "in the key of A", we don't really mean that all the chords and all the melody notes are diatonic to A major. We mean that most of them are, and we mean that the A chord will sound like "home", E7 will sound like it wants to resolve back to A, etc. The chords to a rock or blues tune that's in A will probably consist mostly of A, D, and E, maybe some C#m and Bm. There can be some other chords, and some variation of the chord qualities, but those will be kind of the 'center'.

alexwittscheck · #10 05-15-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

Most music that we hear today isn't strictly diatonic, meaning the notes don't all come from a single major scale. When we say that a rock or blues tune is "in the key of A", we don't really mean that all the chords and all the melody notes are diatonic to A major. We mean that most of them are, and we mean that the A chord will sound like "home", E7 will sound like it wants to resolve back to A, etc. The chords to a rock or blues tune that's in A will probably consist mostly of A, D, and E, maybe some C#m and Bm. There can be some other chords, and some variation of the chord qualities, but those will be kind of the 'center'.

Well said. Two years of music theory will not help you convey your knowledge to people btw. You have to be a good communicator like Jim here (and unlike me) Haha.

Chebass88 · #11 05-15-2009, 09:30 AM

It essentially gives you the chords to play in that key. If you are told to play in "A", that means the IV chord is D, and the V7 chord is E7. The ii chord is Bm7, iii chord is C#m7, vi chord is F#m7, and vii chord is G#m7b5 or G#-half diminished. The same is true for the rest of the 11 keys. If you have to play a "ii-V turnaround" in A, this means you'll probably play a Bm7 to E7 to A. If you hear the chord progression leading up to the IV chord, you know you'll be playing a D chord.

Alternatively, if you hear those chords being used, particularly as 7th chords & not just triads, and knowing that a minor 7th chord can only be the ii, iii, or vi chord, you can immediately know what key you're in. If you hear a Bm7 chord, that means you could be in the key of A, the key of G, or the key of D. Combine it with a C#m7, you're automatically in the key of A, since C#m7 does not occur in the keys of G or D.

I hope I've explained this clearly...

ian

**zenrad** · #12 05-15-2009, 10:20 AM

The diatonic 7th chords in a given key are
Imaj7 IIm7 IIIm7 IVmaj7 V7 VIm7 VIIm7b5

so in C it's
Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7b5

in F
Fmaj7 Gm7 Am7 Bbmaj7 C7 Dm7 Em7b5

In Bb
Bbmaj7 Cm7 Dm7 Ebmaj7 F7 Gm7 Am7b5

Now, if someone asks to "play in key" and you're playing over a Dm is it the II in C, the VI in F, or the III in Bb ? Without considering the chord before it or after it, that lone chord can be in any of those keys, and you could play from either major scale and it would be "correct" although you'd hear a different "color" to the sound.

If you have a Dm7 G7 then you could treat it as a II-V in C. The arpeggio tones of course would always work, and notes from the C Major modes will also.

This is just scratching the surface, but it should give you a start.

phxlbrmpf · #13 05-15-2009, 10:48 AM

It also depends on the style. If you're playing with a metal band and someone says "we're gonna jam in (the key of) E", you're probably going to start with a riff in E minor. Maybe later on, someone will throw in a chord progression or two and it'll probably be something like C major, D major or A minor, D major. If you're playing a blues, you'll first have to learn a blues scale or two to figure out what makes the blues "tick". However, as a rule of thumb, if someone tells you to play something in the key of X, first ask them if it's gonna be minor or major, and then play a bass line that is based on either X major or X minor.

BassChuck · #14 05-15-2009, 11:00 AM

Know your scales, all of them. Know what chords can be made of the notes in each scale.

Learn the blues... all the forms. Learn to hear what is going on in any music you are playing. Learning to play well is a process, not an event. There is no piece of knowledge that will solve all the problems. That's why its call experience.... and it takes time and work. Dedication is probably more important than anything else.

What was the movie that Tom Hanks had the line, "of course its not easy... thats what makes it great".

akaTRENT · #15 05-15-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassChuck

Know your scales, all of them. Know what chords can be made of the notes in each scale.

Learn the blues... all the forms. Learn to hear what is going on in any music you are playing. Learning to play well is a process, not an event. There is no piece of knowledge that will solve all the problems. That's why its call experience.... and it takes time and work. Dedication is probably more important than anything else.

What was the movie that Tom Hanks had the line, "of course its not easy... thats what makes it great".

Yeah Ive been playing for 8 years and have gotten pretty damn good in local circles, show me something (in the genre i play) and i can spit it out, but i have no idea how it works or what it means. so im working as hard as i can. theory just kills me.

mcm · #16 05-15-2009, 11:33 AM

Theory is for the birds. Select some blues based songs and try to match the sounds. Better yet, have a teacher or fellow musician give you some ear training pointers. Ear training is the most important thing in music. Put your time toward that.

alexwittscheck · #17 05-15-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcm

Theory is for the birds.

Not if you are trying to get a music degree. Don't look down on me just because I am going to college. ha.

mkrtu9 · #18 05-15-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Nazium

Most music that we hear today isn't strictly diatonic, meaning the notes don't all come from a single major scale. When we say that a rock or blues tune is "in the key of A", we don't really mean that all the chords and all the melody notes are diatonic to A major. We mean that most of them are, and we mean that the A chord will sound like "home", E7 will sound like it wants to resolve back to A, etc. The chords to a rock or blues tune that's in A will probably consist mostly of A, D, and E, maybe some C#m and Bm. There can be some other chords, and some variation of the chord qualities, but those will be kind of the 'center'.

Jim wrote my thought, however he wrote it better than my thought

Jonathan Herrera · #19 05-18-2009, 03:05 AM

My advice, if you're motivated akaTRENT, is to get a keyboard and take some piano lessons...at least enough to learn the notes on the keyboard. Then start studying theory, preferably with a teacher. It's really hard to conceive of many of the fundamental concepts of harmony (intervals, chord and scale construction) if you're trying to visualize a bass fingerboard in your mind. A piano keyboard is MUCH better suited to this process.