Help Through Chameleon

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I'm glad we got that straight!

Apology, grudgingly accepted!

Bruce-
You really need to have your own show.

[dougjwray]

[quote=Ed Fuqua]Actually you transcribe Pres and others and you see that they, do a very great degree, are NOT using scales as their improvisational base. They are linking triads. In the famous interview in DOWNBEAT, Bird doesn't talk about scales, he talks about playing the upper extensions of the chords as a new harmonic progression. There's a reason players talk about progressions, harmony, re-harmonising etc. The framework is HARMONY not SCALE. ANY note can work, as long as you establish the context (and resolution path, which again implies HARMONY) for it to exist in. If you haven't already read it, I highly recommend THINKING IN JAZZ; there's a lot of anecdotal as well as analytical stuff in there. Suffice it to say, when most jazz musicians talk about improvising, SCALE is not what they talk about. Again my point is, if you can clearly hear a limited vocabulary with clarity, you can use that vocabulary in a meaningful way. This is the antithesis of the chord/scale approach.
QUOTE]

Great post.
To take it a step further: when you hear the really great improvisors like Bird, Pres, Wes Montgomery (one of my favorites), Miles, Clifford Brown, etc., they are creating new melodies (or "telling new stories", if you will) which arch over the changes. They can hear so well that they are transcending the chord/scale thing.
And, Booker Little once said something to the effect that he could make any note sound right, as long as he knew how to resolve it. This is in line with your correct statement, "ANY note can work, as long as you establish the context (and resolution path, which again implies HARMONY) for it to exist in."

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

If you haven't already read it, I highly recommend THINKING IN JAZZ; there's a lot of anecdotal as well as analytical stuff in there. Suffice it to say, when most jazz musicians talk about improvising, SCALE is not what they talk about.

Ed-
...have you heard of Arcana: Musicians On Music compiled by John Zorn?
Good book if you're interested in a compound headache. Yer boyz at the Downtown Music Gallery should stock this.
Scales? LMAO...

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I always thought music schools existed so jazz musicians didn't have to get real jobs?

How do you get a 'jazz' musician off yer porch?

Pay him for the pizza.

[slybass3000]

I always thought music schools existed so jazz musicians didn't have to get real jobs?

It is funny how Americans **** on their own musical heritage!!

SB

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

To take it a step further: when you hear the really great improvisors like Bird, Pres, Wes Montgomery (one of my favorites), Miles, Clifford Brown, etc., they are creating new melodies (or "telling new stories", if you will) which arch over the changes. They can hear so well that they are transcending the chord/scale thing.
And, Booker Little once said something to the effect that he could make any note sound right, as long as he knew how to resolve it. This is in line with your correct statement, "ANY note can work, as long as you establish the context (and resolution path, which again implies HARMONY) for it to exist in."

THAT'S what I'm talking about. Only I thought it was Eddie Harris that said that?

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by slybass3000

It is funny how Americans **** on their own musical heritage!!SB

It's cause the blues comes from inside you;given a harsh reality you can either laugh or cry.
Chief, I think you and me need to sit down and have a serious discussion. We can either explore the dialectic or we can devolve to sniping about stupid ****, but I got no interest in doing the latter. You want to swap CVs, we can do that too.

[slybass3000]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

It's cause the blues comes from inside you;given a harsh reality you can either laugh or cry.
Chief, I think you and me need to sit down and have a serious discussion. We can either explore the dialectic or we can devolve to sniping about stupid ****, but I got no interest in doing the latter. You want to swap CVs, we can do that too.

The only thing I wanted to do here was to help somebody who was asking a question about ideas to explore on a specific groove.
It turned out to be about schooling is bad for musicians. Which is totally off.
End of my presence here.

PS Some of you should start threads in the humor or misc forum instead of General instruction.

[Chris A]

Ok, I think we're done here.
thanks everyone!


Chris A.