Help w theory and the bass grimoire

[jacojbass]

seriously if you want to learn theory... READ! it is not hard.

[MontzterMash]

Mark Levine's books are pretty jam packed! I've got two sitting on my shelf ...

My favorite is still my first (good blues song maybe?): "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People", also on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0966161661

Try that one, OK?

[mambo4]

Joe, seriously check the PDF linked in my sig.
all the basics of theory, no notation, pretty pictures of guitar necks that translate directly to bass necks (mostly...)

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

Uhm, I use modes every day when I walk a bass line. Obviously they're not useful without an understanding of chords and harmony, but a guy playing only chord tones tends to be pretty boring imho.

true, but "understanding Harmony , Chords, Chord progressions and how they relate to a parent key"
is NOT the same thing as "playing only chord tones."

I play modes all the time as well, but only because the process of thinking in chord tones and passing tones leads me to end up playing modes -without ever having to actually think about modes per se. Plus I get to use chromatic notes as I see fit, in complete violation of modal thinking.

<opinion>
You don't need to understand modes in order to benefit from understanding harmony.
But learning modes without harmony is next to useless.

Harmony > modes. Learn harmony first.
</opinion>

[DiabolusInMusic]

So anyways, back to the original question...

I thought I answered that fairly well, is it clear now that you have had some time to think about it?

If you write the seven notes of C mixolydian, G Dorian, and F Ionian you should see your answer clear as mud.



I could give two spits what you use to learn, I just want to help you learn and I hope it is coming to you now.

[Sithian]

I would highly recommend Bass for Dummies. Lots of useful info in here for beginners through advanced.

[bassybill]

I think you already have this, Joe, but I'm posting it here to remind you about it! Also, others may find it useful.

Freely dowloadable music theory booklets, basic, intermediate, advanced.

Music Theory Book - Free Download

[Joe Nerve]

Thanks bill. I printed out the first 5 pages and I'm taking them to work w me today.

Question.

How does knowing intervals help a musician? I've been playing for over 35 years, have played with over 50 bands, over 1000 shows, and I have not once, ever, been in a situation where I said or thought, "Dang. if I only knew my intervals." It's never come up. Not trying to be a wiseass, trying to find the motivation to memorize this stuff. How is this knowlege applied once it's ingrained in our skulls?

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Thanks bill. I printed out the first 5 pages and I'm taking them to work w me today.

Question.

How does knowing intervals help a musician? I've been playing for over 35 years, have played with over 50 bands, over 1000 shows, and I have not once, ever, been in a situation where I said or thought, "Dang. if I only knew my intervals." It's never come up. Not trying to be a wiseass, trying to find the motivation to memorize this stuff. How is this knowlege applied once it's ingrained in our skulls?

You need to know intervals to "spell" chords (for example, Cm7 = C, Eb, G, Bb). If you know the chords for a tune, then you have a really crucial bit of help in making choices as to what notes will sound good at each point in the music.

Recognising intervals by ear (or in your musical imagination) also helps to translate what you hear (or imagine) to your fingers, given time and practice. The old "if you can hum it, you can play it" thing.

[Joe Nerve]

Thanks. I actually think I got a bit of a grasp on this right after I asked the question. Seems like it will give me something other to go by than my ears, and open some new doors and possibilities. Given the fact that I'm seriously starting to lose my hearing, this may become essential.

[NickyBass]

About the Mark Levine book...I think it might be worth working through it slowly. Who cares if you don't read treble clef. The info is the same...it is universal...and once you understand it, you can apply it to your instrument of choice. I still stand behind the recommendation. There is no quick way to learn this stuff. You just have to work on it every day. I don't think you can look at is as 'well, when will I need to know intervals.' You have to look at intervals as the building blocks and nothing else will fall into place without that knowledge.

To me, the goal of theory isn't to try to apply it...it is to understand it so well that you don't have to think about it anymore. It becomes second nature. The guys who think that learning theory hurts creativity are just taking the basics and forcing them out and that is not what it is about.

Personally, I find it much easier and quicker to work with musicians who have an understanding of theory.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Thanks. I actually think I got a bit of a grasp on this right after I asked the question. Seems like it will give me something other to go by than my ears, and open some new doors and possibilities. Given the fact that I'm seriously starting to lose my hearing, this may become essential.

Everyone that can hear hears intervals, but not everyone recognizes what they are, how far up or down they are as in; "that note I just played is a perfect fourth from the note that someone else played", "that's an augmented chord", "she added the 9, #11 and 13 to that chord", "that's a 1 6 2 5 progression in Bb". Musicians that don't know formal theory still recognize all of these things, they just may not know how to articulate that information to another person, but uses the ability to recognize these intervals in their playing everyday.

[Kubicki440]

Originally Posted by mambo4

Joe, seriously check the PDF linked in my sig.
all the basics of theory, no notation, pretty pictures of guitar necks that translate directly to bass necks (mostly...)

+1

I downloaded this to my Kindle yesterday, great stuff.

I also use the Ricci Adams site to refresh. Hats off to the OP for wanting to learn theory.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Kubicki440

+1

I downloaded this to my Kindle yesterday, great stuff.

I just realised that's the booklet I referred to as well - it's actually hosted on my own webspace. Good to see mambo sharing the link, as it could be useful to lots of folks.

[Basically Bob]

I downloaded and printed the book a few hours ago and am really looking forward to digging in! So ... many thanks to mambo4 and bassybill for posting the info!

[DiabolusInMusic]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Thanks bill. I printed out the first 5 pages and I'm taking them to work w me today.

Question.

How does knowing intervals help a musician? I've been playing for over 35 years, have played with over 50 bands, over 1000 shows, and I have not once, ever, been in a situation where I said or thought, "Dang. if I only knew my intervals." It's never come up. Not trying to be a wiseass, trying to find the motivation to memorize this stuff. How is this knowlege applied once it's ingrained in our skulls?

The biggest thing about learning your intervals isn't so much seeing how a chord is constructed, which is a very useful skill, I find it more is in internalizing them. So you can hear and sing intervals at will. I assure you 100%, learning intervals will increase your musical ability, especially when transcribing.

I find it so much easier when explaining something to a student or bandmate when I can just say hit the minor 3rd or the tri-tone/diminished fifth. I also find it fair easier to remember a scale as degrees as opposed to notes, when I think mixolydian, I think root, maj 2, maj 3, perfect 4 & 5, maj 6, min 7, this probably seems odd to you, it did to me at first, but it is a far more practical way of looking at scales. It really helps when you get way off bass with a scale, like if your in the lowest D mixo, and end up on your high G, I know I am sitting on the perfect 4th, I can go up a step or down within key.

[Bassics101]

Originally Posted by bassybill

I just realised that's the booklet I referred to as well - it's actually hosted on my own webspace. Good to see mambo sharing the link, as it could be useful to lots of folks.

Just reading thru this myself. Great to have online; very useful.

A little off topic, but related, is there a version of this that can be edited, or is that even allowed? There are a few typos and such that need to be corrected (caps for minors). Also, at least to my view, the description about resolving a tritone on page 28 is confusing or incorrect. E to C would be a minor 6th, not a perfect 5th. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[DiabolusInMusic]

Didn't read the booklet so I don't know what the description is, but yes, E to C is a minor 6 (C to E is a Maj 3rd). B is the fifth of E.

[MostlyBass]

"You have to listen to the notes she didn't play!" - Lisa Simpson