Hey, a little help please?

Vile · #1 10-31-2009, 10:19 AM

Firstly, to start off I just started playing bass for about 6 months.
I jammed quite regularly, with my band mates, however they recently started to have "open jams."
So, in the open jams, we were suppose to come up with our own solos.
We usually play Am chord progressions, so the drummer would give the beat, and I would play along with the rhythm he's giving.
After a while, the guitarist would start to do a little blues solo, and then he told me to come up with any solo after he ended.
I was left there stunned, I had no idea what to play.
I felt so useless caused I caused the very fun jamming session to end adruptly =X
Everyone was enjoying's the guitarist's solo, and I spoiled the whole thing.
That was the first open jam session, ever since then I tried to match, but I just couldn't do it.
Yesterday, I had a jam session, with my friend, a guy who plays the Oud ( damn cool yeah? hahas ) and our guitarist.
So we played the "open jam" thing again, and they were so amazing, both of my friends. Their solos were amazing, I was left speechless, and when it's my turn, I screwed up again, they were doing fast licks, while I was going slow and even though I did follow the blues progression, I couldn't match up to their awesome-ness...
I really felt bad, like I'm dragging everyone down?
My friends haven't been playing for years and years.
The guitarist have been playing for almost 2 years, and my friend who plays the oud has also been playing for almost 2-3 years.
But even though I have only played for 6 months, I really feel that even after 6 months, I can never ever reach their level or standard.
I was wondering if anyone could lend me some advice?
Cause I don't want to drag the band down, cause their my friends..
How do I improve from where I am now?
You can ask me anything, I will be sure to answer.
Also, I notice my middle finger "flys out" when I'm not using it, it makes it real ugly, like as if I was scolding someone >.<
Any ideas how to stop that?
( When I was playing my sax, I used to have "flying fingers" too, but I used double sided tape on my pads, and I stopped flying, however I doubt it'll work on the bass because the fingerboard will probably get damaged by the tape, and I don't want that to happen =x )

Thanks everyone for listening to my story and please give me advice, thanks!

JimmyM · #2 10-31-2009, 10:26 AM

My advice is to be patient. I would also advise trying to learn reading music and learning a little basic theory, like pentatonic and blues scales. And when you're called on to solo, play something. The more you do it, the easier it gets.

Jim Campbell · #3 10-31-2009, 10:35 AM

stealing a few licks from records here and there helps until you develop your own....and keep them short.......i've heard lots of really good players solo too long and lose sight of the song

wittynamehere · #4 10-31-2009, 10:36 AM

I wouldn't sweat soloing, when you jam with them next time, just tell them before you start the songs that you are going to pass on the solo. You've only been playing 6 months, about the same time frame as I have and *I* don't bother trying to solo at this point, although the guys I jam with would let me if I wanted to, it's just not anywhere near as important to me as trying to develop my ability to groove.

My middle finger does the same thing sometimes, but if I pay attention to it, I can usually get it back near the strings. It's getting so I find myself flipping the other guys off less and less now, So there is hope

Jimmy is right about the theory thing, the more I learn the easier it becomes to put together a more complex bass line.

Definately keep playing with other people though, I find I learn so much just from playing with other people.

Good luck, and keep groovin.

Vile · #5 10-31-2009, 10:41 AM

Hmm.. Basic theory? As in?

I can read notes and I know my blue scales and pentatonics, but not as well as if they are like the back of my hand. Also, knowing them so well, how does it help? It's not like we use all the notes that we learn in what we play right?

I also have been passing out the solos too, hope the day will finally come one day when I can play though.

And how short is a short solo? Or how long is considered a long solo?

Thanks

Jim Campbell · #6 10-31-2009, 10:47 AM

the major and min pentatonics and the blues scale should be second nature anywhere on the fretboard in all keys....work on them and say the notes out loud as you practice,and learn the different fretboard shapes......after a while vary the way you play them,ie; go up half way then go down or up an octave and continue the pattern etc.....and listen to as many different players as you can.....you can learn some tasty stuff even from bands you don't like

wittynamehere · #7 10-31-2009, 10:58 AM

Learning how chords are made lets you know what notes you can play under what notes to help outline the chords the other instruments are playing, also gives you some easy choices to move from one root note to another.

angryclown5 · #8 10-31-2009, 11:05 AM

http://www.youtube.com/marlowedk#p/u/25/JKD9c19fEWU

JimmyM · #9 10-31-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vile

Hmm.. Basic theory? As in?

I can read notes and I know my blue scales and pentatonics, but not as well as if they are like the back of my hand. Also, knowing them so well, how does it help? It's not like we use all the notes that we learn in what we play right?

Of course we do. We don't use every single note in every single situation, but we use them. And yes, you do need to know them like the back of your hand.

Also, remember that when you are asking a question like that and you get answers from more experienced musicians than yourself, try to allow for the possibility that they might know more than you at this point. One day you might lap us all and play breathtaking solos that amaze us with their brilliance. But you ain't there yet, so listen and learn. We're on your side, dude.

Cix · #10 10-31-2009, 11:26 AM

First off, forget the tape idea. From how I understood it, that will probably result in a conciderable loss of sustain and a looooot of fret buzz. But there is hope! You've probably adapted a 'poor' habit on your hand positioning (I put 'poor' in quotes because there's a lot of people who can make it work and it really just comes down to personal preferance). You're probably resting the flat of your palm on the back of the neck and therefore are folding your fingers around to fret. Try, instead, to rest only your thumb on the back of the neck, arching your fingers over. This will probably result in cramps at first since you're not used to using these muscles as much, but just get used to it. You'll find that you'll be able to move all over the fingerboard at a much more efficient rate in no time and you'll no longer have to worry about flipping the bird to your band mates.

As for the soloing, not much more can be said. Taking short but recognizable licks from other bands always makes for a fun and interesting solo (so long as you keep it in the appropriate key). There's a link to the most informative bass instruction site I've ever read called TheLibster floating around TB somewhere. I suggest reading everything in the Lessons section, especially the chord theory and modes.

Just remember, "There is no such thing as a wrong note, it's how you use the notes that make all the difference." ~V. Wooten

G00D+~VIBES · #11 10-31-2009, 12:06 PM

I found it helpful to record all of the "practicing" I do at home. That way, when you finally run across an idea that you like, you can go back and remember it and figure out how to work it in when you're playing with others. It is also a nice tool to allow an objective (if such a thing can be used w/ music) view of how you sound and what you need to work on. I used some horrible cassette recorder I found in the basement, it isn't a pretty recording but it works.

Vile · #12 10-31-2009, 05:53 PM

@JimmyM

Hey, yeah, I guess so, thanks

I shall start learning them all once again I guess.

@Cix

So I don't rest all my fingers on the fretboard?
Meaning I only rest my thumb and stretch my fingers out right?
By doing that, my middle finger is awakrdly position in a "high and out" position compared to the other fingers, I don't know if it's the structure of my hand or what though, maybe I'll try doing that and putting my middle finger closer.
However, I notice I do not have this problem when I play scales, I only have this problem when I play everything else but scales, weird isn't it? =x

@G00D+~Vibes

Yeah, thanks on the idea, I'll try that

Chris K · #13 11-01-2009, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

My advice is to be patient. I would also advise trying to learn reading music and learning a little basic theory, like pentatonic and blues scales. And when you're called on to solo, play something. The more you do it, the easier it gets.

+111 to that - and find yourself a teacher who teaches you to understand the basics and is willing to help you finding your own way. He could help you to play those songs - if you could be satisfied by fulfilling a very elementary musical role, which is not a bad idea for bass players.

Chris K · #14 11-01-2009, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vile

@JimmyM

So I don't rest all my fingers on the fretboard?
Meaning I only rest my thumb and stretch my fingers out right?

Find a teacher, watch videos.

Proper left hand is:
- thumb at back of neck, pointing to the ceiling
- fingers bent like a claw (SO NOT STRAIGHT!!) and all fingers on or just above the fretboard (yes, pinky too). Play with your fingertips as much as possible. There are other ways/exceptions to this, but they'd better come to you later.

MalcolmAmos · #15 11-01-2009, 06:05 AM

Jamming - As a newbie also - one thing that I have found helpful is to get some practice time in when ever I can by playing "finger bass" to my radio or the music channel on cable TV. No idea what song will be next, so that means I have to decide WHAT riff will work with this song - on the fly. Normally start with my ole basic R-R-R-R for a few measures and then experiment from there. Great fun. As it's just me - no sound - because of that I seem to be able to focus in better than if I'm plugged in.

Visualize the left hand fretting and then do the right hand fingering on my knee.

Great help figuring out what baseline riff will work with this specific song. Have not tried a solo on my knee (LOL), but, nothing keeping me from doing that also. I did figure how to make pentatonics fit into a baseline using this method. IMHO pentatonics need space and this method helps me find if this specific song has space for a pentatonic riff, i.e. in this song there is space in the chorus, but not in the verse. Do I have room to get back for the -- "Root on 1"

Have fun.

Fletcher Lanning · #16 11-01-2009, 06:22 AM

+1 on learning your scales. The biggest thing you can do is to know what scale fits with what chord then, when you see\hear a chord, you know what notes you can be playing.

Ex: If you're playing a blues and need to play a simple solo, you can play notes exclusively from a major pentatonic scale starting on the V chord (If you're playing a Blues in F, the 'V' is C, etc.). There will always be more ways to add complexity and melody to your solo, but start really really simple until you master that, then add something that you like the sound of.
Also...
When you know you are going to one of these 'open jams', don't be afraid to plan ahead. Write out one of the chord progressions that you commonly do with the group and write yourself a solo BEFOREhand. Practice your newly minted solo and show it off to your friends. The first solos that I had to play live were all written\planned out. As you write\learn more solos you will build up a repetoire of skills that you can call on later when you are really improvising.

Cix · #17 11-01-2009, 11:06 AM

http://www.ehow.com/how_4787074_bass...-position.html

This should clarify any confusion.

Fletcher Lanning · #18 11-01-2009, 08:31 PM

Do NOT..I repeat...DO NOT use the positions illustrated in steps two and three. They give you no dexterity. They are bad for your wrist and could possibly give you problems later on. If you watch all of the really great bass players they use a hand position that is somewhat similar to the 'claw' used to Upright Bass Players. You want to form your hand in an arch around the neck, letting your thumb rest on the back while keeping your wrist as straight as possible. This will give you speed, accuracy, and protect your wrist.

Nick Kay · #19 11-01-2009, 08:45 PM

You need to build your repertoire, man. Lift and transcribe solos, and not just bass solos. Guitar, trumpet, sax, piano, hammered dulcimer, whatever. Notes is notes. What you're looking for is those little combinations of intervals and bits of melodies that you really dig and end up internalizing. Practice practice practice, and those'll come out when you go to improvise.

Notice, you probably practice songs right now. Standard bass line fare. That is fine and dandy, but that means that's what's going to come out when you go to improvise. If you want blazing fast shred licks to come out, you've gotta practice blazing fast shred. If you want soulful, minimalistic melodies, you've got to practice soulful, minimalistic melodies. We are what we eat, and our writing and improvisation are simply the compound of what we listen to and practice.

becker4567 · #20 11-01-2009, 09:51 PM

Don't sweat trying to dazzle your mates with solos. They will come in time, but just try to remember that everyone starts somewhere, and this is supposed to be fun! Practice reading tabs, getting some songs down without staring at the fretboard and, at least at first, go pretty slow. It's much better to be accurate (meaning no buzz and hitting the right notes) than flying up and down the neck. Once you get your fingers and your head to work as a team, the rest will be easy!