Hmmm.

[fsf347]

Alright, so iv been thinking.

Iv been playing bass and getting lessons for about 1 year and 5 months (i took quite a few breaks in between playing).

But my problem is, what do I have to show for it?

My teacher is an extremely talented guitarist, and goes to college for classical guitar, and is even a band that was on the verge of fame. He tells me that he rather take the time to teach me theory, rather then having me play off tabs all the time.

But i find when i pick up my bass around other people, I dont know what to play. I dont memorize any of the songs I take the time to learn. I know some theory, but I dont think I know how to apply it very well. I also think the theory I know is rather basic (im able to read music fine, im familar with all of the notes up to the 12th fret, i can figure out different scales, and play major, minor, diminished, augmented arpreggios, starting to understand modes, etc.).

But, I listened to two of my friends jam yesterday. They have the same teacher, who cannot read music. The thing was, they actually sounded pretty good, and actually played 4 or 5 different "jams", and seemed to know when to play what. I think they said they were based of the jazz pattern, which I have no idea what that is, anyway...


What should i do? I know learning theory is the logical, smart thing to do, but the fact that my friends can jam and sound decent, and I cant pisses me off. >.<

[standupright]

play with other musicians. the more you do it, the more you get better at it. learning basic structures such as blues and such will provide you a foundation to make things up as you go along. and others that understand these basic patterns (like I-IV-V) will be able to jam with you regardless of what you make up.

[klokker]

Dude, you gotta play man. Don't just do your lesson. Learn some songs you want to learn and do what you want to do.

If you want to jam, then jam. Take a chord progression you like on the radio or something and just make up stuff to it.

There's no magic answer. You just gotta play. And for a lot longer than 11/2 years!

[Danny Fox]

Standupright is bang on, learning your theory is one thing, applying it is something else. Playing with different people will help you on your way

[Dekker]

First I should mention that I'm not much more experienced than you... Under a year's playing for me, self-taught, mostly theory till couple months ago.

If you know scales and arpeggios, you're ready for the blues. Just look up 12 part blues. It'll have different notations such as 1 1 1 1 4 4 1 1 5 4 1 1. Each number is four beats. The 1 represents the root of the scale, 4 is the 4th of the scale, and you can guess what the 5th is. Play the root note on the first beat, any other note from the arpeggios on the other three beats, and you can effectively follow a blues beat.

Example? Blues in E (using only roots)

E E E E | E E E E | E E E E | E E E E |
A A A A | A A A A | E E E E | E E E E |
B B B B | A A A A | E E E E | E E E E
then rinse and repeat. To make it more interesting, keep the first note of each bar as the root, but replace the other three by the major arpeggios of the given root.

E Ab B Ab | E B Ab B | E Ab B Ab | E B Ab B |
A Db F Db | A F Db F | E Ab B Ab | E B Ab B |
B E F# E | A F Db F | E Ab B Ab | E B Ab B |

(sorry if there are typos above...)
I'm not claiming that the above is groundbreaking in any way, but the technique will allow you to "jam" with anyone on a standard 12-bar blues.

Google is your friend with 12 bar blues...

[fsf347]

waitt, how come the F is sharped in some bars, and not in others?

[lanzealot]

uhmm, F# = Gb ?

[standupright]

Originally Posted by lanzealot

uhmm, F# = Gb ?

and E = Fb

[standupright]

Originally Posted by fsf347

waitt, how come the F is sharped in some bars, and not in others?

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/blues-bass/

[fsf347]

im aware of that.

but there is no F is the key of E?

[standupright]

Originally Posted by fsf347

im aware of that.

but there is no F is the key of E?

sure. it's a non chord tone that creates tension.

[fsf347]

ohh. i was thinking thatt, but i wasnt sure if you could play notes that arent in scale of the key, haha.

thanks a lot though, im gunna check out that link you posted.

[standupright]

Originally Posted by fsf347

ohh. i was thinking thatt, but i wasnt sure if you could play notes that arent in scale of the key, haha.

thanks a lot though, im gunna check out that link you posted.

actually i just looked at what the guy posted that you are referring to and in this instance even though the piece may be in the key of E, when you are phrasing on the five (B) F# is within the key of that phrase.

[ga_edwards]

IMO, playing music isn't about mastering the theory and being the best. It's about enjoying yourself and expressing yourself with other people and other musicians.

Some people won't agree with me but I think you need to find a teacher you will help you learn what you want to learn. It sounds like your current teacher isn't working for you. No disrespect to him, but the same methods aren't right for everyone. There's a lot of musicians who don't have in depth knowledge of theory, and don't want or need it as they're happy with what they are doing. Sure there's fundementals that we would all do well to learn and use, but if you don't enjoy what you're doing and feel like you're getting nowhere say something.

It would be sad if you were to jack it in because you're not happy with your progress. I know, I all but gave up clarinet years ago after I finished music A level as my teacher stripped our any passion I had for playing it to get me through the exam. Yes I passed, but was glad to finally get through it, as I never wanted to play the thing again. Seriously, I absolutely detested playing the thing.

Find another teacher, or talk to your current one and explain what you want to be doing. If you still crave getting more advanced in the future then do so, but at the moment, enjoy learning what you want to learn and being able to jam with fellow musicians.

[dmrogers]

You may or may not want to get another instructor. Sounds like you have a good instructor, it sounds like he is taking a pretty good approach to teaching you correctly.

However, you might want to teach discussing your goals with him. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about tabs at this point. With that said, do you understand chord structure? Do you understand song structure (or rather the structure of chords that make up a song)?

In addition to your normal lessons, find a song that you really like and figure out the chords structure, or you can probably print the chord sheet from the Internet. Work on jamming to the song, at first playing the root of each chord. Then you can work on runs and passing notes/tones. Be careful to work on chord changes, listen out for notes or changes in the song that will alert you of a chord change.
You can also do this when jamming with other musicians!


These are thing you can do on your own while continuing your structured lessons. I would be willing to bet if you try this for a while, it will all start to come together and you will find yourself far ahead of the game.

Good luck!

[fsf347]

thanks for the replies.

yeah, my current teacher is a great guy and everything, and he really focuses on teaching me theory. which i completely prefer over tabs anyway. he actually gave me The Lemon Song to work on, so i suppose thats my current project :P

but the thing im thinking about is, along with the link that was posted above, and a class im taking in school (Music Theory 1), its all been pretty much a review of what iv learned. Now, the ideas and lessons presented in both my class, and the above link are pretty basic. And when i think that its taken me 1 year and 5 months to JUST to learn that stuff, and not have a concrete idea of even how to play with other musicians, it gets me thinking about if im practicing the right things....

[standupright]

Originally Posted by fsf347

thanks for the replies.

yeah, my current teacher is a great guy and everything, and he really focuses on teaching me theory. which i completely prefer over tabs anyway. he actually gave me The Lemon Song to work on, so i suppose thats my current project :P

but the thing im thinking about is, along with the link that was posted above, and a class im taking in school (Music Theory 1), its all been pretty much a review of what iv learned. Now, the ideas and lessons presented in both my class, and the above link are pretty basic. And when i think that its taken me 1 year and 5 months to JUST to learn that stuff, and not have a concrete idea of even how to play with other musicians, it gets me thinking about if im practicing the right things....

it's not that you aren't practicing the right things. you have to play with others. keep in mind you are only 1 1/2 years into it and are starting with a good foundation. theory and reading are a very important part of the foundation. it helps you to understand why what you do works and how to read what others have done. application of that knowledge comes when you put yourself in the position to use it. have i said play with others? again with the blues, you don't necessarily have to know the tune to play the tune if you know the structure. play with others.....and often. it really does help the creative juices to flow.

[Stumbo]

Here are some TB threads to check out:
~Getting creative
Where does creativity come from?

Creating bass lines
Target Approach
Walking bass line examples
Ed Friedland on walking bass lines

For a jam
Jammin'

Playing scales

Playing behind/ahead of the beat
"Feel"
Playing "in the pocket"

More links in my sig. below.

Good luck.

[Dekker]

Oops, knew I was typing too fast (without thinking that is). Had too many mistakes in my original example!

In my example, key of E has 4#s (F#, C#, G#, D#) again, putting your theory to work:

E G# B G# | E B G# B | E G# B G# | E B G# B |
A C# E C# | A E C# E | E G# B G# | E B G# B |
B D# F# D# | A E C# E | E G# B G# | E B G# B |

[MalcolmAmos]

Back to the F thing.....

Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb
Memory pegs:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos.
Fat cats go down alleys eating birds.
Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked.
Figure out how these memory pegs can help - that fish thing - and they will make more since.

Natural Minor Scale Chart
A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
D E F G A Bb C
G A Bb C D Eb F
C D Eb F G Ab Bb
F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

This is hard to find on one piece of paper suggest you bookmark or print this and keep it handy.

Good luck.