How can you tell what key a song is in?

skaliwag66 · #1 10-25-2007, 03:36 AM

By the chords used in the song?

Oh yeah and can anyone help me with the name of this scale with the following notes?

F, G, A, A#, C, D, D#, F

Jedi Of Syrinx · #2 10-25-2007, 03:41 AM

Hey, random shot in the dark here, but F Minor?

And I have no idea how to tell the key tbh, i just hit notes and hope they sound right

phat daddy · #3 10-25-2007, 03:44 AM

Fm has a minor third, an Ab, so it's an F major scale with a flat 7th. If it was a regular major scale the D# would be an E. This is also known as Mixolidian mode. Just my two cents.

Lorenzini · #4 10-25-2007, 03:45 AM

Looks like the key is in F. Of course, you'd want to play F7 over that, which have the notes F, A, C, Eb. The notes in the scale you presented are the correct notes to play over an F7 chord.

Lorenzini · #5 10-25-2007, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phat daddy

Fm has a minor third, an Ab, so it's an F major scale with a flat 7th. If it was a regular major scale the D# would be an E. This is also known as Mixolidian mode. Just my two cents.

Totally correct.

funkydanbass · #6 10-25-2007, 03:49 AM

The scale or mode is F Mixolydian.
You should think of it as: F-G-A-Bb-C-D-Eb-F

It is the 5th mode in the key of Bb.

Check out the cycle of fifths, as well as studying diatonic harmony. When you understand the relationship of modes to the major scale and how chords are constructed from them its very easy. And whilst that might sound a little complicated it really is quite easy. You can generally tell a key from 3 or 4 chords. By how they relate to each other and what key signature or accidentals they imply.

phat daddy · #7 10-25-2007, 03:53 AM

BTW Mixolidian mode one of the most useful for rock, r&b, blues, and funk. As far as the OP's first question goes, the simplest way to identify a key is to see where the passage being played naturally resolves. This is hard to do when one only sees one of the scales in the passage, so I can't tell you about this one, but if you have a chord progression that goes over the course of 4-8 bars I can tell you how to figure it out.

funkydanbass · #8 10-25-2007, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzini

Looks like the key is in F. Of course, you'd want to play F7 over that, which have the notes F, A, C, Eb. The notes in the scale you presented are the correct notes to play over an F7 chord.

Right, but F7 is in the key of Bb!

phat daddy · #9 10-25-2007, 03:59 AM

Funkydanbass is 100% correct with his theory. His way is simple if one has some basis in diatonic tonal harmony and mode theory, but there are ways to do it by ear as well.

Thunderfly · #10 10-25-2007, 04:20 AM

Hi

Just my two pennies worth (being from England and all) but you tell the key by looking at the sharps and flats at the start of the scale don't you? For example, you have a music score, and if the scale begins with sharps in C, D, F and G then you identify that as the key of E

I must admit, I've been playing bass for 14 years, and it's only recently I have actually studied musical theory, so I could be wrong

**Rune Bivrin** · #11 10-25-2007, 04:54 AM

OK, here's my method of finding out keys:

99 times out of 10, the song will be in a standard major or minor key, sometimes with modulations to other keys. I will noodle notes, as if playing solo. After a few not so nice sounding attempts, I will have found two instances of half steps that sound good. These will map onto a major key, or its parallel minor key.

So in the OP example, you have A-Bb and D-Eb. That maps nicely to Bb major (ionian) or G minor (aeolian). Now, it could be F mixolydian, but that's if F feels like "home" in the scale. Sometimes that's the case. It could also be C dorian, D phrygian, Eb lydian or A locrian.

From the notes alone, it's really impossible to tell which of these it actually is, but statistics would indicate Bb major.

If the song ends on a Bb major chord, it's pretty clear cut.

Drucocu · #12 10-25-2007, 05:26 AM

perfect!

btw: I have no clue, haha!

CallieBum73 · #13 10-25-2007, 05:32 AM

Im just now learning theory as well...all these modes confuse the heck outta me...thanks guys...that helped me out alot!!!!!

skaliwag66 · #14 10-25-2007, 05:55 AM

Thanks for the help guys.

I do believe it might be in the key of F major (since the scale has Bb and Eb and the only accidentals in the whole song are Eb and Bb)
The first chord in the verse (this is a song i am transcribing by the way) is F. Then it goes Am/E, Eb, Bb/D.

The scale must be 5th mode of Bb which makes this more confusuing

Thats just the verse

The scale I typed is basically the notes in the melody part that goes over those chords. Do mixolydian scales always go over major chords?

Also, does the first chord in a song (mainly the verse part) or the accidentals in the whole song always indicate the key?

Sorry for going all over the place but this mode stuff is what grinds my musical theory learning to a hault.

skaliwag66 · #15 10-25-2007, 05:56 AM

Oh yeah I should mention that i started transcribing this on the keyboard. when I play a bass part for this the chords start on the root notes.

T-rent · #16 10-25-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkydanbass

The scale or mode is F Mixolydian.
You should think of it as: F-G-A-Bb-C-D-Eb-F

It is the 5th mode in the key of Bb.

Check out the cycle of fifths, as well as studying diatonic harmony. When you understand the relationship of modes to the major scale and how chords are constructed from them its very easy. And whilst that might sound a little complicated it really is quite easy. You can generally tell a key from 3 or 4 chords. By how they relate to each other and what key signature or accidentals they imply.

Good advice! The circle of 5ths is a great this to know! Try and make up a rhym or sumthing to help you remember it!

**Rune Bivrin** · #17 10-25-2007, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaliwag66

Thanks for the help guys.

I do believe it might be in the key of F major (since the scale has Bb and Eb and the only accidentals in the whole song are Eb and Bb)

Last time I checked Eb wasn't a part of F major. But it is a part of F mixolydian.

You should turn the reasoning around. You don't use modes over chords. You use chords under modes.

If the song is in F mixolydian, that implies a set of notes, and that will lead to a set of chords. Some major, some minor and some other.

Now, the chord sequence you wrote has the notes F, E, Eb and D in it. That doesn't really fit any particular scale, key or mode, or rather it means it's already modulating. So it might be trickier than what you think.

skaliwag66 · #18 10-25-2007, 07:58 AM

oops i meant to say Bb, I'm looking at my crappy circle of fifths drawing

uprightben · #19 10-31-2007, 05:41 PM

Here's one good trick for finding out what key a tune is in without knowing anything about music theory: what chord does the tune end on, i.e. what is the very last chord of the whole tune? That is the key, so if the tune ends on Bb major, well then it is in the key of Bb major. This works for %99 of all diatonic music (a.k.a. "normal" music)

warnergt · #20 11-05-2007, 09:48 PM

The solo/jam segment of "Simple" and "Limb By Limb" by Phish are in F mixolydian.