How do bassist learn songs in 15 seconds at jams? - Page 2

JTE · #21 12-31-2012, 03:37 PM

An often overlooked aspect of this is that too many inexperienced people think learning a song means learning the bass line to a specific recording of the song. That's silly. Learning a song is all the stuff listed in the posts above. Learn to hear structure and patterns, and learn to be able to play something appropriate for those patterns.

Being able to hear a 12 bar versus 16 bar versus AABA structure helps. Hearing common chord progression (not as Dmin to G7 but recognizing all of the ii V sounds) gives you a huge leg up. This kind of bass line works on Dmin to G7, so when I hear Amin to D7 the same kind of line will work.

Listen to what's going on around you, fall on your face a few times, pick yourself up, and ask questions afterwords- like "What was that cool change on that last tune- you know, where it obviously didn't go the V like I thought it did?"

John

bass12 · #22 12-31-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

An often overlooked aspect of this is that too many inexperienced people think learning a song means learning the bass line to a specific recording of the song. That's silly. Learning a song is all the stuff listed in the posts above. Learn to hear structure and patterns, and learn to be able to play something appropriate for those patterns.

Being able to hear a 12 bar versus 16 bar versus AABA structure helps. Hearing common chord progression (not as Dmin to G7 but recognizing all of the ii V sounds) gives you a huge leg up. This kind of bass line works on Dmin to G7, so when I hear Amin to D7 the same kind of line will work.

Listen to what's going on around you, fall on your face a few times, pick yourself up, and ask questions afterwords- like "What was that cool change on that last tune- you know, where it obviously didn't go the V like I thought it did?"

John

It's a sad fact that for years I thought I knew a lot of songs when, as it turned out, what I really knew were a lot of bass lines.

Champion · #23 12-31-2012, 03:47 PM

This is an interesting thread. I was in the same boat a few days ago when I was jamming with a few friends (some I have not played with before). The other players just pick up a song and play. No chord sheet, nothing at all. And I just sat there unable to play anything. The only one that I can play is the 12 bar blue.

It was a frustrating and depressing experience. Sort of feel like I have wasted almost 2 years learning nothing...

msaone · #24 12-31-2012, 05:32 PM

It's just practice. Getting to know your instrument.

It takes time but when it happens you'll be surprised, you'll just be able to do it.

ksandvik · #25 12-31-2012, 05:36 PM

Some of my tricks:
*) Listen to a lot of music, it's interesting how a lot of music has the same chord patterns.
*) Look at the musicians, guitarists' left hand position indicating chord changes, drummers (who know the song) indicating the breaks.
*) While you wait for your turn, listen to the songs so next time you are up on stage you know them.
*) I really recommend chord studies on a piano as you learn intervals and based on the chords played you could within 30ms or so adjust the bass tone to the next song.

I doubt anyone could do this with an unknown Zappa song, though.

MalcolmAmos · #26 12-31-2012, 05:45 PM

I do not jam bass, as our jamming circles here are all acoustic and a double bass is not in my hobby budget, however. do jam 6 string guitar. Once you know your style of music you can pretty well predict the chord change - like you said about playing dirt simple I IV V songs.

The vi and ii get added, so I miss that change the first time I play that song. Know better the next time I hear it. The 12 bar blues progression follows a predictable progression.

Yes to Nashville numbers being called out. In my neck of the woods the person calling the song would probably say; Next one is "Kiss ole Kate" it's in G and there will be some 6's in there". Or, it's just G's and D's and you change on the word, "Home", i.e. the person calling the songs tries to give everyone a heads-up if it is a "new" song.

Long story short, anticipate the basic progression the style normally uses and be ready to adjust.

inthevelvet · #27 12-31-2012, 05:45 PM

I spend a couple hours a week doing nothing but listening to my itunes on shuffle(2500 songs) and/or the radio, and forcing myself to play whatever comes on. Some tunes I'm locked in in 10 seconds, some it becomes obvious that they are too complex to learn on the fly. But this exercise still helps me a lot. Basically the idea is that I'm gonna fall on my face X amount of times, I'd rather have more of those times be at home than on stage, lol.

**hsech** · #28 12-31-2012, 05:49 PM

Depending on the genre, a lot of the music is predictible. Funny you should mention Moondance. My old jazz trio use to do that song. If you get a chance, buy a couple of fake books, or perhaps rent them from your local library. fake books are a good way to learn songs. Most of the ones I've worked from are eith a single line melody or a treble and bass clef single line melody with the chord name above the places where a chord change takes place. Another way to really pick it up is to find an old school keyboardist and see if he will work with you.

jmverdugo · #29 12-31-2012, 05:50 PM

It's not that hard, for the notes follow the guitar chords, for the bass line follow the drummer, for the arrangements follow the vocals, all songs have a chorus and a verse then it is just repetition, nobody expects you to do it exactly as the original song. Of course having listening the song helps a lot but mostly is commons sense, with time you will learn what note comes next by just knowing the first note, it's all about patterns.

jmattbassplaya · #30 12-31-2012, 05:59 PM

A good ear, knowledge of theory, knowledge of your instrument, and some good old fashion experience make it all possible.

It's important to keep in mind that many people at these jams might not even know the songs much past the hook/main melody and the chord changes; and to be fair, that's all you ever really need to know. If you have a solid understanding of theory and where the notes fall on your instrument you'd be surprised at the number of songs you can wing without having ever really learned them. You probably will never be able to do that with a Rush or Dream Theater song this way, but for 90% of pop songs in most genres you can definitely get away with it.

**Stumbo** · #31 12-31-2012, 06:01 PM

Check out my >500 links below for a section learning blues progressions and other relevant info.

MalcolmAmos · #32 12-31-2012, 06:01 PM

Yes, it's like grenades and horse shoes; close is good enough.

obimark · #33 12-31-2012, 06:11 PM

Your ears will get you through plus some knowledge of song structure.
I have been at open jams as well where the guitar might show me the main chords once of a song I have never played before, and I can play thru easily. i may miss a note or a change at times, but I have jammed songs with people I have NEVER played with before and sounded good 95% of the times (of course having played for 24 years doesn't hurt, and I always learn whatver songs are in Guitarworld (other than death metal ones). LEARN lots of songs in different styles.

Learn SONG structure and chords more than particular basslines. For my band, for the 40 songs we play I mainly work on the main chord changes and song structure moreso than duplicating exact basslines, if there is a signature riff like blood and Roses has, I play that but for other songs, I play my own fills.

**Freddels** · #34 12-31-2012, 07:30 PM

How well do you know your fretboard?

Do you know the cycle of 4ths/5ths?

Do you know major scales? Minor scales? Pentatonic scales?

Do you know how to construct major and minor chords?

Are you playing a 4 or 5 string bass?

BawanaRik · #35 12-31-2012, 07:42 PM

Moon dance, Whipping post, Question in your eyes a bunch of other songs.
I was fortunate enough to have a left handed rhythm player starting out. Watch their fretting hand. Any note they're fingering is fair game.

I get the I IV V mixed some time and do better with more yes I can hear it move things.

Learn a couple of blues variations. Stand by Me is learning about a hundred songs. I vi IV V. And remember that Stepping Stone played in A sounds a whole lot like House of the Rising Sun when you adjust.

And I don't know why but there's a bass pattern, it's been a while but maybe, C B A G F E Dm riff that works in a lot of songs

When you learn a rock song you learn 10 rock songs. To really be cool work with a Rhythm Changes. There's few variations. Think Hot Tuna Keep on Trucking.

BassMorpheus · #36 12-31-2012, 07:43 PM

Genre/Style (Blues, Delta Blues, Texas Roadhouse Blues, and etc.)
Time (Slow, Up, Swinging, Straight ahead, and etc.)
Form (ABA, AABA, AAAA, and etc.)
Key (Ab, B#, Three down or four up, and etc.).
Lyrics (You are the Sunshine of My Life, That's the Way I Like It, and etc.) You may not know the complete lyrics, yet I am sure you have heard the song enough to know the lyrical structure.

In essence, you draw from everything you know about music, songs, and the like. Louis Armstrong did not have electric bassists. Therefore, if need be, how would you emulate a Louie song played on upright on your electric? What would your tone sound like? Where would you play on the bass? AS many TBers have posted, music is a life-long process and NO ONE knows all music ever created even in a DAY! Pop music is popular because...Your grandfather's pop music is not your pop music is it?!

Be a student, open your heart, mind, and ears! Peace!

BawanaRik · #37 12-31-2012, 07:44 PM

Love that Blood and Roses. When meeting another bassist that's better than a handshake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by obimark

Your ears will get you through plus some knowledge of song structure.
I have been at open jams as well where the guitar might show me the main chords once of a song I have never played before, and I can play thru easily. i may miss a note or a change at times, but I have jammed songs with people I have NEVER played with before and sounded good 95% of the times (of course having played for 24 years doesn't hurt, and I always learn whatver songs are in Guitarworld (other than death metal ones). LEARN lots of songs in different styles.

Learn SONG structure and chords more than particular basslines. For my band, for the 40 songs we play I mainly work on the main chord changes and song structure moreso than duplicating exact basslines, if there is a signature riff like blood and Roses has, I play that but for other songs, I play my own fills.

BawanaRik · #38 12-31-2012, 07:46 PM

A good bass line is a song. Look at any Mac line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass12

It's a sad fact that for years I thought I knew a lot of songs when, as it turned out, what I really knew were a lot of bass lines.

Cycho · #39 12-31-2012, 07:53 PM

I agree with a lot of the previous posts, but I would add this: play along with the radio. If you do it every day you'll be noticeably better in a week. You will also learn the songs on the radio!

rockamimjazz · #40 12-31-2012, 07:59 PM

Make Pandora your new best friend. Here's what I do: I have my bass rig in the same room as my PC, which is hooked up to decent speakers. Open up Pandora (it's free) and pick a wide variety of "stations" that interest you (country, rock, funk, blues, top 40, whatever). Pick up your bass and just play along with whatever song pops up; some you may know and some you won't. I change stations often to keep it interesting. I love playing by ear, and just "jumping in" with both feet on a tune you've never heard is a great learning experience. And by doing it this way, you can do it in the privacy of your home and not worry about mistakes. Over time, you'll find that your ability to jump into a song you've never heard, and at least play along half decently, will greatly improve.