How do I tell what Key I'm in?

[tpmiller08]

Is the key im in simply the root note? Or is there something more complex and diabiloical im missing here?


-Troy

[MooseLumps]

Are you changing keys with every chord?

[tpmiller08]

Originally Posted by MooseLumps

Are you changing keys with every chord?

Im not quite sure what key I'm even in. If A minor and C Major have the same notes, how would I know that I'm in Am and not CM?

[ZH_Driver]

While Am and C have the same notes, the way the chord progression goes will give away which key it is. Is there a lot of C (first/root), a little less G (5th), and some F (4th) and Am (6th) in there? (I think those are the only chords in the pattern modern music seams to use, oh for the good ol' days) If so, you're in C.

I am guessing you do not have the full score, just a chord chart or some tab?

[NickInMesa]

Originally Posted by ZH_Driver

I am guessing you do not have the full score, just a chord chart or some tab?

Usually scores indicate the key, but most of the time you don't have one, especially when you're invited to jam and you're told the song is in C.

I usually get by by asking the chord progression and by watching the guitarist's hands.

That's why knowing a bit of 6 strings guitar and learning at least the most common open chords is a good thing.

[IdealWay]

What are you trying to play? Chances are there's something more complicated going on.

[Michael Case]

Q. How do I know what key I'm in?

A. Ask someone you're playing with.

[tpmiller08]

No charts, no tabs, no particular piece of music. This is just a broad question I can't find an answer for.

Is the key whatever note I play over the most during the progression? I'm having such a hard time figuring this one out

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by tpmiller08

No charts, no tabs, no particular piece of music. This is just a broad question I can't find an answer for.

Is the key whatever note I play over the most during the progression? I'm having such a hard time figuring this one out

No, to that last idea!

The easy way is that each major key has only one (dominant) 7th chord - which is based on the 5th degree of that major scale!

So if you have a dominant 7th chord in the piece then you know that is the 5th note in the scale and can work back to the 1st note - which is the key!

[ericw]

This is something I have trouble with too.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

... The easy way is that each major key has only one (dominant) 7th chord - which is based on the 5th degree of that major scale!

So if you have a dominant 7th chord in the piece then you know that is the 5th note in the scale and can work back to the 1st note - which is the key!

This doesn't always work, does it? I'm thinking of blues for example, where the I IV V chords may all be played as dominant 7th chords.

The way I approach it right now, in the novice stage of my developement, is a combination of recognizing scales/intervals and chord theory.

In major scale, the I chord is major, the ii and iii are minor, the IV and V are major, the vi is minor, and the vii is diminished.

E.G. if your chord progression had Amaj, C#min, Dmaj, and Emaj you could piece together that the song was in the key of A major.

Minor scale the I chord is minor, ii is diminished, III is major, iv and v are minor, VI and VII are major.

E.G. if your chord progression had Amin, Cmaj, Dmin, and Emin you could piece together that the song was in the key of A minor.

The Relative major/minor issue can be determined by the chord progression as someone else said. Sometimes (maybe usually?) it will be as easy as what chord the song starts/ends on but not always...

[tlr1293]

Am I wrong in saying that you may use the chord progresion...
which leads you to the scale...
which provides you the root of the scale...
which is what KEY you are playing in.

C Major scale:
C D E F G A B C

Chord progression:
CM Dm EM FM Gm AM Bdim

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by ericw

This doesn't always work, does it? I'm thinking of blues for example, where the I IV V chords may all be played as dominant 7th chords....

Yes it does - what is in fact happening in the Blues, is that the key is changing and you can feel that - when it goes up after the first 4 bars you feel it, as a big shift of key...?

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by ericw

In major scale, the I chord is major, the ii and iii are minor, the IV and V are major, the vi is minor, and the vii is diminished...

That's what I was saying though - the V chord is not an ordinary major - but rather a dominant 7th chord with the flattened 7th, as opposed to a major 7th!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by tlr1293

Am I wrong in saying that you may use the chord progresion...
which leads you to the scale...
which provides you the root of the scale...
which is what KEY you are playing in.

C Major scale:
C D E F G A B C

Chord progression:
CM Dm EM FM Gm AM Bdim

You "use" the chord progression - but everything else you have said is wrong!

[MalcolmAmos]

Key is a range of sound. The important word here is rang - of sound. You can recognize that range by ear, or you can look for give-a-ways. Every key has specific notes and chords within that key. When the song is called out to be in C you must know what chords will work and which ones will not. Going to take some theory time, yep, got to do a little study or you will just keep asking the same old questions.

This will get you started.
http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ad.php?t=11975

Best site IMHO for bass is IMHO
http://www.studybass.com/

Good luck.

[PJSShearer]

What chord do you Finish on? - That is the key you are in.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by PJSShearer

What chord do you Finish on? - That is the key you are in.

Doesn't always work - I know dozens of Jazz standards that don't finish on the home chord!

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Yes it does - what is in fact happening in the Blues, is that the key is changing and you can feel that - when it goes up after the first 4 bars you feel it, as a big shift of key...?

I wouldn't say so. It really doesn't change key. It still feels like tonic-subdominant-dominant function. That's kind of the interesting thing about the blues, how "dominant" 7th chords, as they're often called (I won't recapitulate the discussion in the other thread) effectively have tonic and subdominant functions.

I would basically agree with what Dolmetsch Online says in this regard:

"In diatonic major and minor progressions the dominant seventh provides a strong pointer to the key centre. Some other harmonic 'systems' are not so obliging. The harmonised 'blues' scale has three dominant seventh chords, I, IV and V. Yet, when listening to 'blues' music, there is in no sense a feeling that there are three competing key centres. Rather. the tonic chord provides as strong a sense of key as it does in major or minor keys. One might say that only one of the dominant sevenths is 'true', the others being 'false'. 'True' and 'false' are not a good choice of words because all three are real dominant sevenths satisfying the proper chord formula. A better way of describing them is to look at the 'pull' one feels when these dominant sevenths are played. The V7 chord in the key of the piece will 'pull' us to the tonic, the I chord. This was the chord progression we suggested gives us the best pointer in diatonic harmony to the key centre."

[PJSShearer]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Doesn't always work - I know dozens of Jazz standards that don't finish on the home chord!

I forgot to mention that it usually does - most "songs" certainly do.

[DriesG]

Hey, I hope this helps...

The notes of the C Major (Ionian) scale are c d e f g a b.

Chords are Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 and Bm7(b5)

So these chords can occur in a song which is in the key of C Major (of course, there are a lot of variations, alterations or substitutions...)

If you would play a song in the key of A Minor (Aeolian), You could use the same chords as in its relative major key (C Major), but starting on its 6th grade:
Am7 Bm7b5 Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7

But, if you look at the C Major chords, you'll find a dominant chord on the 5th grade (G7). So, if you do this in the previous chords of Am, the Em7 will be changed into an E7 dominant chord. The note g is changed into the note g sharp. This will give you the following scale: a b c d e f g#. This scale is called harmonic minor. If you write down the chords, you get:
AmMaj7 Bm7b5 C+Maj7 Dm7 E7(b9) FMaj7 G#dim7
(If you would also change the f in to an f sharp, you'd get the melodic minor or sometimes called jazz minor scale...)

To keep it simple: the E7 chord tells you, you're in the key of A Minor, a G7 chord will occur in the key of C Major.