How do you determine what key you are playing in?

[BrentSimons]

Hey Fellas,
Sorry if this is a silly question but this has always stumped me, how do you determine what key you are playing in? I am familiar with the circle of fifths but what if you play a note that isn't in one of the keys? are you now playing in another key?
Thank you in advance,
B

[Ed Fuqua]

There's a lot to go into and it's best not to try to do it piecemeal. It's like building a stone wall, if you don't stack the bottom rows well enough so that they form a firm foundation, the more likely it is to fall down.

If you have a teacher, start asking them to talk about functional harmony. If you don't have a teacher, it might not be a bad idea to get one.

The short answer to your question is that

1. you may not be in a "key" - a lot of music is written by folks who have a pretty limited harmonic vocabulary (and they still make some beautiful and compelling music), so if the only 3 chords they know are Dminor, Abmaj and Gb7b9b13, those are the chords that their music gets made around.

2. you may be actually modulating to a new key or implying a modulation to a new key. Using secondary dominance, modal interchange etc.

[64jazzbass]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

There's a lot to go into and it's best not to try to do it piecemeal. It's like building a stone wall, if you don't stack the bottom rows well enough so that they form a firm foundation, the more likely it is to fall down.

If you have a teacher, start asking them to talk about functional harmony. If you don't have a teacher, it might not be a bad idea to get one.

The short answer to your question is that

1. you may not be in a "key" - a lot of music is written by folks who have a pretty limited harmonic vocabulary (and they still make some beautiful and compelling music), so if the only 3 chords they know are Dminor, Abmaj and Gb7b9b13, those are the chords that their music gets made around.

2. you may be actually modulating to a new key or implying a modulation to a new key. Using secondary dominance, modal interchange etc.

+1 to the above. Try not to overthink it at this point though. Let your ear be the judge as to what sounds good. A lot of great music has been written and played without the composer or player's knowledge of what the theoretical particulars were. I also recommend getting a good teacher.

[mvw356]

i think the last chord played is an indicator for the key of a song, i.e last chord is c major, then the key of the song is c major. this is obviously only true for songs that have no key change. also, you will stumble across some songs that have chords that are not in key, but still sound good.

[chantezlebas]

if you´re playin AC/DC 99% of the time you´re in E or A thats how i would tune my bass when i was 15

[jadesmar]

1. Play any scale. Which notes are out of place?

2. Fix these notes. Play the new scale.

3. Which scale are you playing? That is your key.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by jadesmar

1. Play any scale. Which notes are out of place?

OK.
E F G A B C D
All of them. Or none of them.

Originally Posted by jadesmor

2. Fix these notes. Play the new scale.

I would fix them but all of my tools are at home. What am I fixing them to?

Originally Posted by jadesmar

3. Which scale are you playing? That is your key.

I am playing an E minor scale (and one that works over an E minor chord ), yet somehow I am NOT in E minor.

Any attempt to figure this kind of stuff out by not addressing chord function is kind of missing the point....

[jadesmar]

Any attempt to determine the key of a song by playing over only one of its chords is also missing the point.

[Ed Fuqua]

Oh I dunno. If the chord I'm playing over has a major third, perfect fifth and a dominant seventh I can be pretty sure that it's pointing at a key that's a fourth up.

Don't miss the point, which is you need more information than whether or not a specific scale "works" to determine the key.

[jadesmar]

Pah..

Given that one chord, you wouldn't even be able to tell if it was a minor or major key.

[Ed Fuqua]

So go back and read my first post. You seem to be focusing on the big cylindrical object covered in a rough brown substance instead of the forest.

Trying to determine a key signature by finding scale notes that "work" is not an approach that will yield much. All it will tell you is some possible note choices for the chord you're sitting on when you try to "fix the notes". Look for simple answers all you want, it's a bigger question than that.

[JansenW]

The key you are in becomes important when you begin to play with others and/or begin to improvise.

The key you are in would be the note/chord which seems to "complete" or "resolve" the song or melody. It's the "home-base" where the song keeps coming back to. (Hence look at the ending if the piece does not change keys). Howerver, there are rare exceptions.

[fcleff]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

So go back and read my first post. You seem to be focusing on the big cylindrical object covered in a rough brown substance instead of the forest.

Trying to determine a key signature by finding scale notes that "work" is not an approach that will yield much. All it will tell you is some possible note choices for the chord you're sitting on when you try to "fix the notes". Look for simple answers all you want, it's a bigger question than that.

Ed's right here. You can't play a scale and 'fix the notes that sound wrong'.

What if the scale is C-D-E-F#-G#-A#-B? What sounds wrong and what needs to be fixed? Where are these notes going.

What is the functional harmony?

I can take a G7 (G-B-D-F) and not necessarily resolve it to C major.

[steveb98]

Key in songs can change through out the piece. This goes on in Jazz all the time besides other types of music. For me I used the chords to figure out what key I'm currently in. I look for dominant V7 chords because they are usually resolving down to the I chord. This is because of the way the 3rd and 7th of the chord resolve.

That is a quicky and dirty way to figure out the key, very quick and dirty. I say follow Ed's recommendation and talk to your teacher and/or get a book on Theory there is so much more to it.

[jadesmar]

If you know the functional harmony of your chords, and where they fall, figuring out the key is redundant and quite possibly a waste of time.

How am I supposed to figure out which notes are out of place when you aren't giving me a chord progression that those notes are played under fcless?

When you are asking "what key are we playing in" what data are you given up front?

A score - count the sharps/flats
A chart - look for dominants and I - IV - V patterns
A tape - try to determine underlying scales and then the chord progressions

Edit: Say what you want, my method take <10s and allows you to throw some sharps/flats down on your blank score sheet so that you can get on with the work of transcribing the song.

[fcleff]

Originally Posted by jadesmar

If you know the functional harmony of your chords, and where they fall, figuring out the key is redundant and quite possibly a waste of time.

How am I supposed to figure out which notes are out of place when you aren't giving me a chord progression that those notes are played under fcless?

When you are asking "what key are we playing in" what data are you given up front?

A score - count the sharps/flats
A chart - look for dominants and I - IV - V patterns
A tape - try to determine underlying scales and then the chord progressions

Edit: Say what you want, my method take <10s and allows you to throw some sharps/flats down on your blank score sheet so that you can get on with the work of transcribing the song.

Now you are giving more specific information than in your original post. What you have stated above is drastically different from "play a scale and fix what isn't right".

So try this: I - IV - V - I (2 bars each) with the scale I posted (C-D-E-F#-G#-A#-B). What key am I in?

[jadesmar]

Yeah, that's still not what I meant.

If you don't know which key you are in, "IV" is meaningless theoretical gibberish.

Give me a chord progression.

[Wil Davis]

Originally Posted by BrentSimons

Hey Fellas,
Sorry if this is a silly question but this has always stumped me, how do you determine what key you are playing in? I am familiar with the circle of fifths but what if you play a note that isn't in one of the keys? are you now playing in another key?
Thank you in advance,
B

…er, I usually take a peek at the key signature written at the beginning of the music?



- Wil

[seanm]

1. Best: "This one's in D boys." Bonus points if I am also told the title of the song.

2. Some hope: Guitar player strums the root chord.

3. Starting to get desperate: Do I recognize the chord shape? Assumes you can see the rhythm guitar player.

4. Desperation: Run through the keys and hope to hit the right one. Don't forget F.

[jadesmar]

#4. Is what I'm talking about. Except, I do that by playing a scale. Eg. playing C major scale, descending from the 17th fret.

ew, nice, nice, nice, ew, nice, oooh, ew. (2 sharps, D major).