how do you name keys + modes?

tranceFusion · #1 07-07-2008, 09:31 AM

If I am playing a song that starts w/ the minor 6th (Dm) of the F major scale, what do I call it?

1) Key of F
2) Key of F, mode minor
3) Key of D minor

Are any of these acceptable or is there some standard?

Deacon_Blues · #2 07-07-2008, 09:42 AM

It's more what chord the song ends with that determines the key, and you need to look at the other chords as well to see what key they fit the best in.

Anyway, granted the song ends on Dm and that chord "sounds natural" to end with, the song is in D minor.

Mushroo · #3 07-07-2008, 09:56 AM

Deacon Blues is correct; you need to look at the big picture to determine which key the song is in. Assuming Dmin is the tonic or "one chord," the correct terminology is "key of D minor."

tranceFusion · #4 07-07-2008, 10:25 AM

To clarify, I wasn't trying to determine the key.. That was just an example.. I just wanted to know how to communicate them.

So if we were playing a chord progression based off the same scale and the song started and ended with an E, how would you name that? "key of E locrian"?

DocBop · #5 07-07-2008, 10:34 AM

What helps determine key is look for dominant chords they tend to resolve to a I chord. To determine key you usually have to look at more than one piece of information. Songs tend to change keys you get into Jazz tunes and they change key constantly. You learn to spot common chord changes and ID what key they are in. Pop/Rock songs today pull changes from lots of sources parallel keys and modal interchange. So you have analyze a lot of tunes and train your eyes to look at root movement and chord quality to spot common diatonic change in a key or keys, or root movements and chord qualities of a related key. In other words this is a situation where stepping back and looking at at a handful of measures reveals more than focusing on a chord by chord.

So for your question if only one chord of info need some info, what is the key signature on the lead sheet one flat? If I had the lead sheet I would look at the chords coming up, if a dominant I would look forward to where it goes, then work backs to the Dmi.

tranceFusion · #6 07-07-2008, 10:46 AM

this question is just theoretical.. i just want to know what to name it.. assuming i KNOW that it is derived F major and I KNOW that the mode is locrian, how do I communicate that to someone.. if someone was like.. hey, what key is this song in, would I say "E locrian"?

**Pacman** · #7 07-07-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranceFusion

this question is just theoretical.. i just want to know what to name it.. assuming i KNOW that it is derived F major and I KNOW that the mode is locrian, how do I communicate that to someone.. if someone was like.. hey, what key is this song in, would I say "E locrian"?

E locrain is not a key, it's a mode.

Deacon_Blues · #8 07-07-2008, 10:55 AM

Hmm.. A key is major or minor. It could be argued that the other modes could be called keys as well but to my understanding you're not saying a song in A minor is in A dorian because it features a D7 chord on the IV. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.

Listen to the third in the modes. What do you hear? A major or a minor third. Call the key major or minor depending on that.

Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian = Major
Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian and Locrian = Minor

Mushroo · #9 07-07-2008, 10:58 AM

Songs can be in a major key or a minor key. There's no such thing as "key of E Locrian" or "key of C Lydian."

It is, however, perfectly reasonable to say to your guitar player "This song is in E Minor with a Locrian feel" or "use E Locrian to solo."

tranceFusion · #10 07-07-2008, 11:09 AM

ok, then i don't understand why you call a key minor if it is simply another mode (Aeolian)?

EADG mx · #11 07-07-2008, 11:31 AM

Aeolian is not the only scale to use in a minor key, much like Ionian is not the only scale to use in a major key

ya dig

jweiss · #12 07-07-2008, 11:54 AM

I call the key of C major "Sally".
F major is "Bob".
Bb major is "Joe".
Eb major is "Willy".
The more flats, the more unusual the name. Cb major is "Shlomo".

For the minor keys I just spell the names backwards. Bob can get a little confusing so you have to really listen to determine whether it is in Bob or Bob.

It really helps the band to be able to call a 32 bar form in Bob with a modulation to Ylliw at the B section.

**Rune Bivrin** · #13 07-07-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweiss

I call the key of C major "Sally".
F major is "Bob".
Bb major is "Joe".
Eb major is "Willy".
The more flats, the more unusual the name. Cb major is "Shlomo".

For the minor keys I just spell the names backwards. Bob can get a little confusing so you have to really listen to determine whether it is in Bob or Bob.

It really helps the band to be able to call a 32 bar form in Bob with a modulation to Ylliw at the B section.

ROFL!

That was really funny. And quite insightful. The use of the words "key" and "mode" are just conventions. It's perfectly logical to say "This song is in E locrian". It's just not done very often. Major and minor as concepts are so deeply engraved in western musical society that we tend to go back to them as home bases, so to speak.