How do you write down the tunes you learn?

[aceshigh]

When you learn R&B, Motown or Pop tunes note by note, riff by riff, how do you write it down?

If this was a jazz tune I'd get the chart and write it down just like the Fake Book. I can read/write music. Pop, R&B and Rock tunes, in the other hand, have LYRICS and the bass line changes a little bit as the song goes. The first verse is not exectly like the second, etc. If I write down the same way I do with Jazz I'll end up with a 5 page chart, minimum.

So I just print the lirics, put the chords on top and hope I can remember it all later. I've just joined a bandwith 60 tunes and have 1 month to get ready for a major gig. There must be a better way than writing chord over lyrics and hoping for the best.

Thoughts?

[BullHorn]

If I play a song note by note, riff by riff, I probably know the song well. The muscle memory is good, your fingers should remember it easily.

[arcellus]

I do a lot of transcribing, both jazz solos and funk/soul bass lines.

I used to just learn the main riff of a funk tune and leave it at that, but lately I've been going one step further and really getting into it - learning all the subtle variations, fills, etc. I find that it's a much deeper level of learning.

And writing them out is an important process too. It really gets you inside just how rhythmically complex some of this stuff can be, and I find that it's really helping my counting and reading. For notation I've been using LilyPond - www.lilypond.org. It's free, open source software that uses a text-based system of shorthand for notation. It has a pretty steep learning curve but after spending some time to learn it, I'm much faster than with a visual software like Finale, etc.

[WillPlay4Food]

I'm just wondering, how long have you been playing? At this point in my playing I know I couldn't learn 2 songs/day and be ready to play them out. Unless that was my job and I worked 8 hours/day at it or something.

[arcellus]

Well, for one thing he won't need to learn all 60 tunes for one gig - unless that's one heck of a long show.

[bikeplate]

HI

I found at a young age as I played along and learned tunes, they just stayed with me. Part of the reason I've been able to play with many different typed of bands. I have a good memory. Stay off drugs and booze, dont burn all your braincells!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!! A bit of advice

Rob

[DocBop]

I think it depends on if you are sketching a tune or transcribing it. For casuals a sketch is fine and I would do it one of two way. First like a fake book and if a signature bass line I would write it in, but not every variation. Or is no real bass line I might do it as a Nashville chart. Been using some of them lately and sure are handy for backing singers. They even have notaton of notes for simple punches and makes when a line needs to go up in pitch or down.

[JimmyM]

On my gigs I have to learn lots of songs at once, sometimes right on the bandstand during the gig. For something like that, learning the exact parts (unless they're repetitive) is a waste of time that will slow you down. And writing every note out just because it changes slightly in the second verse is an even bigger waste of time. Don't even bother. You simply don't have time.

Instead, listen to them and write chord charts down, maybe chart out signature licks that have to be played note for note, but you're better served by trying to get the general feel of the song and using your chord charts to play something similar that may not be note-for-note perfect but sounds good and is in the spirit of the original part. I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, but it all boils down to you not having enough time to learn songs note for note so you learn what's important and use your memory of the original version and your chord charts to get you through.

[Deacon_Blues]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

On my gigs I have to learn lots of songs at once, sometimes right on the bandstand during the gig. For something like that, learning the exact parts (unless they're repetitive) is a waste of time that will slow you down. And writing every note out just because it changes slightly in the second verse is an even bigger waste of time. Don't even bother. You simply don't have time.

Instead, listen to them and write chord charts down, maybe chart out signature licks that have to be played note for note, but you're better served by trying to get the general feel of the song and using your chord charts to play something similar that may not be note-for-note perfect but sounds good and is in the spirit of the original part. I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, but it all boils down to you not having enough time to learn songs note for note so you learn what's important and use your memory of the original version and your chord charts to get you through.

+1

This is exactly what I'd do and also do in similar situations. In a band, you don't always play the songs exactly like the originals but you do your own versions of them. The groove and feel are the important things, not that you play the song exactly like the originals.

Sometimes it also happens that the original bass line just don't fit my playing style too well. In those cases I try to come up with another bassline that grooves and fits my playing style better. But of course, sometimes the origiunal bassline is too critical for the song to change it very much and then you have to stick to that.

[cowsgomoo]

When you learn R&B, Motown or Pop tunes note by note, riff by riff, how do you write it down?

if you have to read them, you haven't actually learnt them

are you able to have sheet music or chord sheets up there on the stage? If so, write them down however's best for you... If this means a 6 page transcription of every single note on the original recording that's fine but it sounds like diminishing returns to me... people in the band generally don't know whether or not you've played every note exactly like the record so how many audience members will? chords, signature licks & rhythmic hits will probably do for the vast majority of pop songs

but if you can't have any paper up there, get memorizing! 60 tunes is a lot but I'd imagine you've heard most of them before and probably even played some before... I bet many of us could wing it (enough to convince maybe 90% of an audience ) though a good proportion of tunes despite having never played them

it'd probably also be common sense to speak to the band leader and tell him/her, "60 songs... fine, but are there any you'd like me to prioritize, given that you probably won't play all 60 on my 1st gig"... it's not unreasonable to ask them for the 'most likely 30' or so... if it was my band i'd rather you nailed 100% the ones we were going to actually play next than be able to play all 60 but with mistakes

[aceshigh]

Thanks for all the advice.

Originally Posted by WillPlay4Food

I'm just wondering, how long have you been playing? At this point in my playing I know I couldn't learn 2 songs/day and be ready to play them out. Unless that was my job and I worked 8 hours/day at it or something.

Answering your question, I've been playing bass for over 20 years now. Althought I have never played 90% of those tunes I knew'em all by heart. That helped. For some it was as quick as 5 minutes. Others like 'September' from Earth, Wind & Fire I had to slow down with a teampo-changing software.

I won't be playing all 60 on the show, I hope. This band has a practise schedule and we all know what we will play in each practise before hand. It is 12 people, imagine the logistics.

Sometimes the singer calls songs that were not on the set for that day. So I usually ask the guitar player what key it is in and wing it.

I agree with JimmyM, learn the main licks and capturing the overall feel is the way to go. This works better if you are familiar with the style and have your own "repertoire" of grooves and licks for that style. Although I love R&B I'm sorta new to this, so, I'm transcribing note by note untill I am familiar enough.

Sometimes when the songs starts I have no clue of what to do, so I look at the chart. About half way throught the song I've remembered most things and at the end I'm not looking anymore.

What is a "Nashville Chart"?

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by aceshigh

What is a "Nashville Chart"?

Nashville charts or Nashville Number System, I've heard it called a few things. There are websites that describe it in detail.

In general they write out tunes instead of using actual chord name like A7, G7, Emi7 etc. They write them like in doing harmonic anaylsis so I7, V7, III-, and so on. They got into this from having work with lots of singers who need to change keys a lot. Having number makes that real easy.

Then they at least the charts I used lately write our songs by section. A letter inside a box. I for intro, V for verse, B for bridge. If more they spell it out. They have slash chord I/3. Speciific notes for pushes I, I, IV, V. I haven't seen it but another bass player told me they will do like a squiggly line upward or downward if a bassline should go up to next change or down to next change.

They real simple, one sheet of paper can hold a pretty complex tune, and if backing a lot of singer or a singer that changes keys they are a life saver. So as long as you know basic harmony they easy to use.

I've talked to a lot Jazz players and they tend to memorize song this way. A I, VI, II, V going to a II V a step up. They memories the harmonic break down and key center change by the interval between the two keys.

[WillPlay4Food]

Here's a page on Nashville numbers, but you've probably used it tons before. If you know what a I-IV-V in Bb is, you know the Nashville number system (numbers to describe notes/chords in a key).

[kiwlm]

I usually can remember how a song sounds, what I can't remember is the structure of the songs, and how many repetitions is some parts of the music.

So I write both chords and signature licks, roughly aligned to lyrics (my reference point). When they repeat, I just mark them as [CHORUS] and refer to them later in the sheet to save space.

Usually I just need to look at it once before the real playing start to "refresh" my memory, after that I play without looking at the sheet.

[Toronto Bassist]

For me, it depends...if it's just a basic pop song, then I'll write down the basic idea and not bother with the variations, like this:



But if it's a more intricate bassline, then I'll work on learning the whole thing:

[waynobass]

Tab: the first verse, chorus, and bridge; and maybe intro and outro if necessary.