How to get a Funky Feel?

[ThatGuyLewis]

Hey, well I've been playing bass for almost 2 years now, (however, I have almost no knowledge experience about theory. I tried some theory lessons for a year and i am simply just not a theory person, it just does not make sense to me, so unless its ABSOLUTELY necessary, do not give me any theory answers) and i can slap and pop with ease, and play a large handful of funk and funk-rock songs (especially the Red Hot Chili Peppers but also other bands like Primus, Graham Central Station, Level 42 etc.) and i can play all of these (with some exceptions) with ease.

However, whenever I try to do some improvisation and make something up completely on the spot, which is usually with slapping, i can only just skim the top of something sounding funky, e.g. a few notes here and there sounding funky.

Does learning how to make something you play sound like that come with experience (e.g. I simply havent been playing for long enough) and listening to that type of music? because I listen to Funk and Funk-Rock nearly every single time i listen to music, and I listen to music a good 4 hours if not more a day.

Or is it that your simply born to be able to play like that? As I can only seem to be able to copy other people's funky work, and not come up with something of my own.

Thank you, Lewis.

[Beginner Bass]

PLAY ON THE ONE!

Also, feel a 16th pulse at all times. It's all in the rhythm. Focus on 5ths, 7ths, and octaves. Keep in mind that most chords will be minor. And work on your finger-funk too. That can't be neglected.

[ThatGuyLewis]

Originally Posted by Beginner Bass

PLAY ON THE ONE!

Also, feel a 16th pulse at all times. It's all in the rhythm. Focus on 5ths, 7ths, and octaves. Keep in mind that most chords will be minor. And work on your finger-funk too. That can't be neglected.

As i have mentioned, i know very very little about theory, i have no clue what a 16th pulse is, and i know what an octave is, i remember doing about 5ths and 7ths but do not remember them, however without being cocky im pretty good at finger style funk, just not funk slapping.

[ThatGuyLewis]

bump

[engedi1]

Most funk, is not slap. Slapping is a little misleading at is just one tiny part of the funky world. +1 to the guy who said you need to learn to use your fingers. Even Flea is using his fingers most of the time.
q IMHO, funk starts with James Jamerson and goes from there. He was the master of syncopation which is what funk is all about. I would suggest aquiring a book called "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" which features about 40-50 Jamerson Transcriptions, a great bio of his life and music, and 2 cd's of many great players like Pino and Geddy lee playing the transcriptions. It is the funk bible in my opinion and immersing yourself in his music will help get funk in your brain and fingers.
Also, with just two years experience you may need more playing time with funky bands with good drummers.
Improvising is hard, your fingers have to simply know what to play. You don't need to study music theory per se, but you really DO need to know where the 7ths of each chord, and the maj and min 3rd are, since these notes are the foundation of funk. If you think about "higher ground" for example. The line is simply the root, the min third, and the 5th and the octaves of those notes.
For you to create your own lines like this, and not understand how chords work, is unlikely. Did the writer of this tune, Stevie Wonder, have a degree in music theory? No, but he sure as hell knew what notes he was playing and why.

[Steve Dixon]

what is 'funky'?.... well that's like saying 'what is sexy..?'

it differs according to your taste, and it's not entirely explainable by science...


well, let's see.... notice how a lot of modern, atonal, Schoenberg type music is completely UN-funky? You can't sing a Schoenberg bass line to yourself, and there's never enough repetition to get SUPERBAAAD along to

so there's 2 things... repetition.. the FUNK is repetitive

it's also frequently singable... a lot of funk is based on the kind of notes the HUMAN VOICE naturally finds easy to hit...

so if you wants the funk, it's more likely to be found in the pentatonic minor, blues scale, mixolydian, and all those 'blue' areas between the major and minor 3rds...

you said you didn't want theory, but y'know.. take it or leave it

along with the repetition is a uniformity of phrasing... you subdivide a beat consistently.. it doesn't HAVE to be straight 16ths to be funky... there's a whole world of funk between completely tripletized 16ths and completely straight ones... and for any given tempo, there's a sweet spot for the 16th note 'swing'...

helps if your band members are subdividing the beats in the same way as you...

you can bring some extra funk by implying the underlying pulse with dead notes..

erm.... TONE is important... some bass tones just aren't funky... a big thick, deep bass sound can make you want to dance more than a Cliff Burtonesque rasp... on the other hand, if you're a slap bass type, emulating drum ideas, then the snappy top end is just what you need

you also need your band members to be bringing the funk too... the funkiest bass playing in the world will fall flat with a club footed drummer

there's no scientific formula, but if you pay attention to the above things, you'll be on your way

[ThatGuyLewis]

Originally Posted by engedi1

Most funk, is not slap. Slapping is a little misleading at is just one tiny part of the funky world. +1 to the guy who said you need to learn to use your fingers. Even Flea is using his fingers most of the time.
q IMHO, funk starts with James Jamerson and goes from there. He was the master of syncopation which is what funk is all about. I would suggest aquiring a book called "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" which features about 40-50 Jamerson Transcriptions, a great bio of his life and music, and 2 cd's of many great players like Pino and Geddy lee playing the transcriptions. It is the funk bible in my opinion and immersing yourself in his music will help get funk in your brain and fingers.
Also, with just two years experience you may need more playing time with funky bands with good drummers.
Improvising is hard, your fingers have to simply know what to play. You don't need to study music theory per se, but you really DO need to know where the 7ths of each chord, and the maj and min 3rd are, since these notes are the foundation of funk. If you think about "higher ground" for example. The line is simply the root, the min third, and the 5th and the octaves of those notes.
For you to create your own lines like this, and not understand how chords work, is unlikely. Did the writer of this tune, Stevie Wonder, have a degree in music theory? No, but he sure as hell knew what notes he was playing and why.

As i said before, i have very very little experience in music theory, i just simply do not understand it, i do not understand these 'minor third and 5th' and all that stuff. Ive got books on theory and as said before have had a year of teaching on it, but I just do not understand it. Now by saying this i am in no way comparing my self to flea or saying i am equal to him or whatever, but flea Didn't know any music theory at all until he started at silverlake (2006+ I think)

But as said before, I can do fingerstyle funk fairly well, its just whenever I try to slap (which is the part of funk im interested in) it just has no (apart from a few on good days and every now and then) good sounding sounds to it

[Basshoofd]

Then learn it. Learn what a minor third and a 5th etc. is, it really isn't hard. Actually, it's very easy and it's just basic music theory that you could teach anyone. Then while you're at it, study basic chords (which will be easy when you know your intervals)

Flea didn't need complex theory because he could play what he felt. Us mere mortals will have to learn at least basic theory to become a decent player.

Could we have some sound samples from you? Playing Chili Peppers, Primus and Level 42 songs with ease after 2 years of playing sounds amazing. I'm getting the feeling that you're overestimating yourself but I'd really like to hear you play.

[ThatGuyLewis]

Originally Posted by Basshoofd

Then learn it. Learn what a minor third and a 5th etc. is, it really isn't hard. Actually, it's very easy and it's just basic music theory that you could teach anyone. Then while you're at it, study basic chords (which will be easy when you know your intervals)

Flea didn't need complex theory because he could play what he felt. Us mere mortals will have to learn at least basic theory to become a decent player.

Could we have some sound samples from you? Playing Chili Peppers, Primus and Level 42 songs with ease after 2 years of playing sounds amazing. I'm getting the feeling that you're overestimating yourself but I'd really like to hear you play.

Yeah sure, should i just do some improv or something? and ive got a mic but its not the best quality ever, and like how exactly would i kind of show you it? (send it in an email or something?) and if im coming across as overestimating myself then im sorry i didnt mean to seem cocky. :S

[Phil Smith]

You can't be funky, if you don't listen to and haven't internalized what funk is. Get your hands on some real funk, listen, listen, listen, wash, rinse, repeat.

[Beginner Bass]

Ask Old Greg...

[engedi1]

Well,
Flea was a pretty serious trumpet player all throughout high school, which would have involved learning to read music and learning scales and chords. So it is not like he is ignorant of music. I don't agree with the statement that you CAN't learn music theory. You just haven't found a good teacher for it. You don't need textbooks and to get super deep with it, but you will have a hard time being a bass player if you don't know the notes on the bass, the notes of the scales, and the notes of the chords.
If you are playing a song in a minor key, and you play major thirds, it will probably sound like crap.
I don't think you can get away from learning at least the scales and the chord tones, nor is this difficult. If you decide to refuse to learn the basics, that makes about as much sense as a carpenter refusing to learn how to use a table saw.

[behemecoytl]

you don't have to know theory to play--- but as you are finding out, it helps communicate with other musicians. Don't be Anti-Theory. learn everything you can... and study James Jamerson...

here's the 16th note breakdown of a measure:

1-e-and-u-2-e-and-u-3-e-and-u-4-e-and-u-1

(notice 16 divisions in this measure-- 16th notes beats)

the 1-2-3-4 are the quarter note beats...

now expand it to the following: 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1 and imagine the drummer hitting the beats and the bass playing the "ands" (sounds kinda like Rollings Stones "Miss You"). this is a basic way to play the offbeats and sound "funky".

and considering the 16th note breakdown- you can play those e's, and's And u beats for syncopated accents.

study Jamerson and eat your vegetables...

"sounding funky" is 99% the rythmic placement of the notes, not the pitches of the notes themselves. Feel it... feeling is everything.

try chromatic movements too- funk doesn't require strict adherence to scale tones.

[gm2_in_co]

Originally Posted by ThatGuyLewis

As i said before, i have very very little experience in music theory, i just simply do not understand it, i do not understand these 'minor third and 5th' and all that stuff. Ive got books on theory and as said before have had a year of teaching on it, but I just do not understand it. Now by saying this i am in no way comparing my self to flea or saying i am equal to him or whatever, but flea Didn't know any music theory at all until he started at silverlake (2006+ I think)

But as said before, I can do fingerstyle funk fairly well, its just whenever I try to slap (which is the part of funk im interested in) it just has no (apart from a few on good days and every now and then) good sounding sounds to it

OK, this "no theory" stuff is p*ssing me off a little and I'm by no means a theory savvy guy. But here's a different approach maybe. Not so much about funk specifically but an approach to playing in general: Pick up Victor Wooten's book. Real easy read. Nothing remotely resembling conventional theory. But it lit up HUGE light bulbs for my rather dim knowledge. Here's a extremely brief snippet:

Think of playing as another language. Can you speak English without learning how to read? Of course! But how limiting is it not to be able to read English?

The book is full of that sort of common sense. Another Wootenism: Don't play like him. It will get you kicked out of most if not all bands.

[WormWoodSoup]

+1 on engedi1

its simple my man! in order for you to learn, you gotta ask the right questions, and that includes "why?" You can't learn what funk is to you if you are looking for shortcuts, 'coz there are none.

And on flea not knowing music theories... that's bs. He produce complex lines and advanced grooves, in which if he doesn't know theory we would not be able to give us those nice basslines. He played trumphet, he knows john coltrane, in which I would bet you flea can improvise solo on john coltrane's "giant steps." He's not best on explaining the theory about it, but he is best on explaining how it feels. Like others said, funk is a lot of feel involve, a lot of syncopation, a lot of subdivsions and alot more learning, breathing, listening to it--and when you are deep into it, you do it over again, from the top.

[Spin Doctor]

Get a copy of "James Brown's 20 greatest hits" on CD. Learn every bassline, note for note with all the inflection, ghost notes and all. After learning them, play each one along with the CD about 100 times. That will get you started. You will absolutely not play everything like Bootsy did when you gig, but you will learn what it feels like and have a good idea how to approach the songs you play. You do want to play along with the CD perfectly though. Listen to the songs several times BEFORE you start playing.

But first, I'd say you definitely need to know all the degrees of the major pentatonics. Without them, you can't learn anything quickly. You will always be chasing notes and never knowing what exactly you are doing. I'd say 90% of rock, blues and funk are pentatonics. Either that, or a Mixolydian scale. At any rate, you can't play pop bass without them.

To learn pentatonics well, try this: First learn all the pentatonic shapes. They are not too tough. Then make some flash cards, randomly numbered with the pentatonic scale degrees, i.e. 6,1,3,2,5 - 5,3,1,6,2 - 3,2,5,6,1 etc. Make about 10 of them. Set the stack on your music stand, and them pick a key. then play all the shapes in random order for each key, one card after the other. Use a metronome.

I generally do them in 4ths, i.e. all 10 sets in "C" then all 10 sets in "F", all 10 in "B flat" etc. Only do a few at a time to start. Work up to doing them at 75 - 100 bpm in 16th notes. Once you get that down pretty much, then pick one card and play the pentatonics in all 12 keys in the "random" order of the card you picked. This will make you really know them. Be aware that this is a purely "physical bass" exercise. It does not involve learning any theory or note names, per se. It is only to build your muscle memory so you can execute the pentatonics instantly. You should, of course learn the note names and associated theory, but it's not that important now...

Now, many people say they know stuff, but what they really mean is that they are aware of stuff. If you can do this exercise while holding a conversation, then you know it. If you can't, then you don't... This applies to any exercise... In martial arts, this is considered performing with "a normal mind", meaning you can do it without thinking... As you would when using a fork to eat. You don't think about it now... It's normal... But it was pretty tough to use a fork as a child.

[engedi1]

+1 to pentatonics. Even if you can't read music, you can learn pentatonics from tab or fingerboard patterns (how do you think most guitar players get by? There is NO EXCUSE not to learn even this much about your craft.

[Basshoofd]

Originally Posted by ThatGuyLewis

Yeah sure, should i just do some improv or something? and ive got a mic but its not the best quality ever, and like how exactly would i kind of show you it? (send it in an email or something?) and if im coming across as overestimating myself then im sorry i didnt mean to seem cocky. :S

I didn't mean to insult you or anything, sorry if I did. You're probably at the point where you can play bass (as in, play the correct notes) I don't believe that you've MASTERED the bass. It's time to work on great timing, note choice, styles etc. A whole new world will open up to you! Which is great, it will help you with your original question. The next stage for you is the greatest one of all, have fun!

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by behemecoytl

you don't have to know theory to play--- but as you are finding out, it helps communicate with other musicians. Don't be Anti-Theory. learn everything you can... and study James Jamerson...

here's the 16th note breakdown of a measure:

1-e-and-u-2-e-and-u-3-e-and-u-4-e-and-u-1

(notice 16 divisions in this measure-- 16th notes beats)

the 1-2-3-4 are the quarter note beats...

now expand it to the following: 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-1 and imagine the drummer hitting the beats and the bass playing the "ands" (sounds kinda like Rollings Stones "Miss You"). this is a basic way to play the offbeats and sound "funky".

and considering the 16th note breakdown- you can play those e's, and's And u beats for syncopated accents.

study Jamerson and eat your vegetables...

"sounding funky" is 99% the rythmic placement of the notes, not the pitches of the notes themselves. Feel it... feeling is everything.

try chromatic movements too- funk doesn't require strict adherence to scale tones.

I agree with this post - it's all about sub-dividing the beat and feeling a bar as 16th notes.

The other thing is that - it's all about the drummer!!

You can be as funky as hell, yourself - but if the drummer is not subdividing the beat and feeling the 16th note syncopations - then it doesn't matter what you do, as bass player - it won't sound funky!

Whereas with a really funky drummer - you can play one note in a bar and it will sound incredibly funky!

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

You can be as funky as hell, yourself - but if the drummer is not subdividing the beat and feeling the 16th note syncopations - then it doesn't matter what you do, as bass player - it won't sound funky!

Whereas with a really funky drummer - you can play one note in a bar and it will sound incredibly funky!

...'sfunny, I always thought Flea woulda sounded even funkier with someone other than Chad Smith (who had the Rock/Punk part done...not so much on the Funk side, IMO).
Will Calhoun, for one, woulda lit a fire in that band.