How to Groove?

[baddarryl]

Ok, started playing again last year at 41. Was never a gifted player. I just had an epiphany: I am never going to be a technician, so I might as well work on my groove! What are the best methods for this? Thanks.

[MalcolmAmos]

Get your favorite 4 or 5 patterns into muscle memory and then make sure your head moves with the beat. If your head is not moving with the beat no way for the groove to develop.

No really, get the mechanics down and then flow with the music. You gotta feel the music.

[itswac]

Listen to the drummer like your life depends on it. Start with the kick drum and then when that becomes second nature, listen to the high-hat. That is the foundation to build on, IMO.

[Eminentbass]

I'd say that groove and feel can't be taught but can be assimilated by imitation and appreciation. Find some guys who's playing you admire and learn some songs and jam with the cds. That way you can internalise what constitutes groove without necessarily having to analyse it. Even if your intent isn't to become a technician, I'd suggest learning some theory and theoretically based technical exercises(a gradual process), purely because the better you know your bass, the less you have to think of those things or fight with the instrument and can just get on with the grooving.

[St Drogo]

For me, the groove is like an internal metronome (or should be at least:P) that goes along with the beat. Now your job is to accent that metronome with the right notes, and more importantly, at the right times. You could practice putting an actual metronome on in an 4/4 beat, not too fast (say, 75 bpm). Then first playing all quarternotes on the beat. Then go on to eights. Then leave the 1,3,5 and 7 out so you're playing the afterbeat. Then switch between afterbeat and on-beat. Now play around with combinations of that. Maybe even a little fill here or there. Also, experiment with note length in this setting. If you play a note, do you make it a quarter note? An eigth? a sixteenth? a dotted eigth (or: three sixteenths worth)?

You see, it all comes down to timing IMHO. Knowing when to play a note and how long that note should be gives direction and feel or groove to the song. A song can be played with quarternotes on the beat, or with 16ths on the beat. Bam, whole different feel. Try inching ahead or behind the beat. By that I mean: Say you've got a 4/4 measure. That contains 16 spaces where you could play a 16th note, right? Now, instead of playing notes on the beat like so:

Beat: 0
Rest: -
Note: $

|0---0---0---0---|
|$---$---$---$---|


You could try moving the bass one 16th up, like this:

|0---0---0---0---|
|-$---$---$---$--|


Or down, like this:

|0---0---0---0---|
|---$---$---$---$|


And just try all combinations here. If you can control that, that should help you a lot. And if it doesn't, hey, at least you've killed some time, right? :P

Anyway, I find these things easier to do with a more busy drumbeat than just bass, snare, bass, snare, so you might try throwing some hihat in there and some more active drums. Also, I find this gets a LOT harder when you do it slower than when you do it faster. So I would advise to start slowing it down when you get the hang of it and see if you can keep it tight. A next step after that would be to cut half the metronome, yet do it at the same tempo. Like this:

|0-------0-------|
|-$---$---$---$--|

And then when you're comfortable with that, make the metronome even more sparse:

|0---------------|
|-$---$---$---$--|

That stuff gets HARD. And that's not even what she said either.

Anyway, that's what I do at least. And I would consider myself kinda funky.

Good luck!

[baddarryl]

Maybe more specifcally metronome and drum machine tips. I have both.

Or bassists that exlemplify the groove. I am an old metal head, but really appreciate jazz, blues, fusion, big band, and on and on as I get older. Definitley looking back to the old days.

[Eminentbass]

Originally Posted by baddarryl

Maybe more specifcally metronome and drum machine tips. I have both.

Or bassists that exlemplify the groove. I am an old metal head, but really appreciate jazz, blues, fusion, big band, and on and on as I get older. Definitley looking back to the old days.

Haha, I've been a Maiden fan for almost 26yrs now so I know about the old days. On bassists who groove, check out James Jamerson, he inspired most of todays groovers in some way. I'm mostly familiar with his playing on Marvin Gaye's stuff but there's tons more that other people can recommend. Also check out Rocco Prestia with Tower of Power, his use of 16th notes/rests and ghost notes define groove for me. He does have a video out where he demonstrates a lot of how he plays.

[baddarryl]

Thanks Drogo. That's what I was talking about

[McKay]

Originally Posted by St Drogo

For me, the groove is like an internal metronome (or should be at least:P) that goes along with the beat. Now your job is to accent that metronome with the right notes, and more importantly, at the right times. You could practice putting an actual metronome on in an 4/4 beat, not too fast (say, 75 bpm). Then first playing all quarternotes on the beat. Then go on to eights. Then leave the 1,3,5 and 7 out so you're playing the afterbeat. Then switch between afterbeat and on-beat. Now play around with combinations of that. Maybe even a little fill here or there. Also, experiment with note length in this setting. If you play a note, do you make it a quarter note? An eigth? a sixteenth? a dotted eigth (or: three sixteenths worth)?



That stuff gets HARD. And that's not even what she said either.

Anyway, that's what I do at least. And I would consider myself kinda funky.

Good luck!

Thank you for that, I can visually see it now.

[St Drogo]

No problem.

Also, I used to have trouble with these things when I just started out. What helped me out was just playing every 16th note muted and just not mute the notes I wanted to play. This was a lot easier to begin with than leaving the muted notes out, because it helps you get a feel of where you are in the measure. Those muted notes were my trainingwheels, so to speak. You might want to try that if you're having trouble.

Like this:

beat: 0
rest: -
note: $
muted note: =

|0---0---0---0---|
|=$===$===$===$==|

Doesn't exactly line up quite right, but you get the idea.

[JTE]

To work on time, don't use a drum machie. Set the metronome to only ckick on 2 and 4 and play lines you already know (or think you know- the 'nome can be brutaly honest!). This way YOU have to make 1 & 3 happen, just like the real world. To extend this to groove, play the same pattern over and over with the 'nome. Don't use the 'nome to keep time for you. Use it as an impartial judge of your time- compare where you are with the 'nome and assume it's right when things go awry.

Like play the line to "I'll Take You There" with the metronome for like 20 minutes straight. No deviation, no ornaments, just focusing on the way it FEELS as you play and the 'nome measures your accuracy.

The other key is to listen to great rhythm sections and dig into how they interact. "Groove" is as much about how different people come together as it is about how the bassist expresses time. I suggest the following sections:

Jamerson/Benjamin et. al.)
Dunn/Jackson
Jemmott/Lovell/Rainey/Purdie- King Curtis, Aretha, etc.
Prestia/Garabaldi
The James Brown bands
Graham/Errico (Sly & The Family Stone)
Hood and/or Cogbill/Hawkins (Musle Shoals)
Radle/Gordon
East/Gadd
Jackson/Mason (Headhunters)
Pastorius/Alias
Gradney/Hayward (Little Feat)
Willie Weeks/anybody

There're a lot more, but that should get you well on you way. And don't discount learning technical stuff. The more you know, the less you have to think, and that makes feeling it easier.

John

[St Drogo]

Also, to add to my previous posts: The goal here is to get the feel of the different ways of playing into your system, so you can switch between them without thinking, but just by doing. Just like switching from a shuffle to a straight beat. You don't do that by consciously thinking which note goes where and how long the measure is now and stuff, you just do it, because you know what a shuffle feels like and what a straight beat feels like. The same idea applies here and having that is a prerequisite for being a great groover IMO.

[Chris K]

St Drogo: Good job! Excellent examples.

Focus on simplicity; 1 or 2 chords, simple pattern, to be played very firmly and decisively. Remember: if they start to funk, you're to be the boss.