How I practice scales,,,,

[Andrew Jones]

I have this method of practicing scales,,,,

Honestly, I've never seen other people talk about this, and it surprises me. I'm not a bright guy (Gee I play bass).

Anyway....

So, people talk about playing every note on the axe.. lowest available to the highest. Cool, that makes sense except everything sounds the same,,,,,,

Example...


Cmaj

Lowest available on a four string is E.. Maybe I'm deaf but when I start C Ionian on E and end on E,,, I hear E Phrygian. Same with D dorian. G mixo,,,,you get the idea.


So if I practice C ionian (on my 20 fret fender 4)I do this.

The Shifts constantly change for variation for example to get the point across I use one shift.


I start on the C on the A string 3rd fret..followed by the D open. I then jump octaves down to my open E and climb up to the B one half step lower than my starting C.When I do this I've used the lowest range of my axe but I hear C maj.

So I then assent up until my C on my G string 17th fret. I then grab the D 19th fret and jump octaves down to a E usually the 14th fret D string and assent up to C 17th fret G string.


Descending is the literal inverse of all of the above.


Personally I practice all scales///sequences/// this way. ( Even E Phryg)


I like it!!! It helps...

Try it!!!



Aj

[monroe55]

[lars-h]

[Basshoofd]

I think the point is that you start with the root note of the scale instead of just using the lowest note in the scale as a starting point. So instead of playing C major starting on the low E, he plays C-D then low E-F etc.

[fearceol]

Check out "Pacman's Sure Fire Scale Method" stickey at the top of this forum.

[Andrew Jones]

The game is to flip octaves to accommodate the extreme ranges of the bass.

In pacman's method you would practice C Ionian EXACTLY the same as you'd practice D dorian.

[Mike Dimin]

Andrew,

Something to think about - why practice scales and modes at all? What is the purpose?

[Andrew Jones]

Technique,,, gets you thinking,, playing in way you didn't before,,that might lead to ideas,,,, similar to most practices. Really,,,why not??? It's better than watching TV!

IMHO this has the benefit of really practicing ideas in the range where the range it self might "stop" your phrase as opposed to a musical decision. I've learned a lot about the extremes of the axe practicing this way.

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

Technique,,, gets you thinking,, playing in way you didn't before,,that might lead to ideas,,,, similar to most practices. Really,,,why not??? It's better than watching TV!

IMHO this has the benefit of really practicing ideas in the range where the range it self might "stop" your phrase as opposed to a musical decision. I've learned a lot about the extremes of the axe practicing this way.

I agree 100% with what you state ...I also like your idea of practicing scales, if one can point out to me, the importance of starting and ending on the tonic. I still maintain,as I did at our little GTG/Clinic last week that scales, modes and fingering patterns, such as the 5 "scale forms" that I present are, inherently, non-musical. It is only, in the ability to translate that practice to performance, that it becomes musical. As I presented, forcing one's self to play in a single position, other that what is customary will create new ideas and develop musicianship.

Because the bass is a symmetrical instrument both horizontally and vertically, playing in any single key is exactly the same as playing in the 11 other keys, up and down the neck. If you learn my 5 forms and the relative staring points for each key, you can play in all 12 keys as easily as you can play in G or C.

I agree that when you state "I start C Ionian on E and end on E,,, I hear E Phrygian. Same with D dorian. G mixo,,,,you get the idea". I find however that I RARELY play in modes but rather in tonal centers. If I am playing a II-V-I in C for example, I do not play D Dorian, G Mixolydian and C Ionian. They all contain the same notes. I would not want to break up my lines into individual modes. Rather, I would look at the tonal center of C major, think the chord tones, etc.

If you remember I spoke a bit about Footprints and how the C minor is C Dorian going to the F minor which also is Dorian. I would definitely not move from C Dorian to F Dorian. If however I was thinking tonal centers and the idea of pitch axis, I might be thinking:

C Dorian to C Natural Minor
Bb Major to Bb Dominant
Eb Lydian to Eb Major

or as I demonstrated A to Ab.

This is one of the reasons that I really try to keep scales, fingering patterns, etc as non-musical as possible.

Thanks for letting me ramble (I've had no coffee this morning)

[plangentmusic]

C major starting on E, IS phrygian! (?)

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

C major starting on E, IS phrygian! (?)

C Major starting on and ending on:

D = Dorian
E = Phrygian
F = Lydian
G = Mixolydian
A = Aeolian (natural Minor)
B = Locrian

[bobknowsbass]

I sort of practice this way, but never thought of it the way you describe. For instance, on a standard tuned four string, Eb's a lame key. The lowest tonic you can get is either first fret D, 6th fret A or 11th fret E (the last one seems to be wildly popular with my students!) Relatively high compared to the other scales, so I'll start from Eb on D and jump down to F on E and ascend accordingly, but I'll end on the tonic on the 20th fret of G and just head straight down until I hit F then land on the first Eb I played. It seems strange to me to keep going past the tonic and then somehow land on the supertonic several octaves below, but hey? Why not?

[Stick_Player]

I find however that I RARELY play in modes but rather in tonal centers. If I am playing a II-V-I in C for example, I do not play D Dorian, G Mixolydian and C Ionian. They all contain the same notes. I would not want to break up my lines into individual modes. Rather, I would look at the tonal center of C major, think the chord tones, etc.

100% agreed!

I have not read your book, however if it is based on this premise, it would be worth obtaining, reading and applying.

This archaic method of teaching "this mode goes with this chord" is a crock o' sh!t.

Playing in a tonal center is the ONLY way to approach playing - especially when extemporizing.

Simply, iim⁷-V⁷-I (i.e., Dm⁷-G⁷-C) is in C Major - NOT D Dorian - G Mixolydian - C Ionian. The ENTIRE time of these chords state a single key/tonal center.

If one wants to play in a Phrygian mode, then the harmonic progression needs to imply this.

[bobknowsbass]

Hey, this sounds familiar...

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by bobknowsbass

For instance, on a standard tuned four string, Eb's a lame key.

If you're playing with horn players, you better not think of Eb as a lame key, cause you'll be playing in that key fairly often. If, however, you can easily play in Eb in the "money" position of your bass (the first 5 frets) - you'll work often.

Mike Dimin

[Mike Dimin]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

100% agreed!

I have not read your book, however if it is based on this premise, it would be worth obtaining, reading and applying.

My book, The Art of Solo Bass really does not deal with this subject. I have another book, Self Published that I use with my students entitled "The CORE Method" which details this. It is only available directly from me. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions

Mike

[eddododo]

Maybe expand on this a little- rather than just doing scales c-d-e-f-g-a-b-c etc, try running 16th note lines that include all of the notes. IE rather than running dry scales which are very un musical, do something like etc.c-d-e-f-g-f-e-d-c-b-a-g-f-e-d-e-f-e-f-g-a-b-c
Lots of people are at the point where doing scales the plain-ol-fashioned way doesnt have much point. Learning to use these patterns musically is the next step, and trying to do continual lines is a great tool. JUST LIKE SCALES practice it slow at first- sound over impatience.

ALSO do (plain-ol) scales in thirds (c-e-d-f-e-g-f-a-g-b-a-c-b-d-c)
then do EVERY interval

that should keep you busy

[bobknowsbass]

Originally Posted by Mike Dimin

If you're playing with horn players, you better not think of Eb as a lame key, cause you'll be playing in that key fairly often. If, however, you can easily play in Eb in the "money" position of your bass (the first 5 frets) - you'll work often.

Mike Dimin

So I should stop practicing in D#?

Yes, I know of the horn keys, I meant the key is lame in terms of it's placement on the standard 4, I love all scales equally, for they are all mere reflections of each other.

I'll check out your book as well.

[Stick_Player]

So I should stop practicing in D#?

You could substitute F♭♭ to spice things up!

If you're playing with horn players, you better not think of Eb as a lame key

Exactly. When I BRIEFLY played with Sonny Stitt, the 'keys' were B♭, E♭, A♭, D♭, G♭ - you get the picture.

[jallenbass]

The other thing to think about when playing a C major scale starting on low E is to try to hear the notes as a line leading to the tonic C instead of as Phrygian. I thinks it's important to be able to hear it both ways.