how to learn chord notes?

[Dredmahawkus]

are major 3rds and 5ths all by skipping a note like A C E .......GBD ect? whats the difference between a major 3rd and a perfect 5th?

[tomshepp]

the best approach to learning chords and the scales that go with them is the Charlie Banacos method of single string arpeggio exercises. PM me if you want more info.

[Shakin-Slim]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

are major 3rds and 5ths all by skipping a note like A C E .......GBD ect? whats the difference between a major 3rd and a perfect 5th?

They are in relation to the root note. While 'skipping a note' while work in some cases, if by a note you mean a whole tone. But it's better to think of them as the third degree of the scale, and the fifth degree, from the root note. Say you're in C, that's the first note of the scale, the third note is E and the fifth is G, the seventh is B etc.

In your example of A minor, that works because there aren't any sharps or flats in A minor (same as C major), but 'skipping a note' isn't a helpful way to consider it. Learn the shapes of each interval (3rd, minor 3rd, 5th, flat 5th, 7th, minor 7th) then you can also consider 6ths and other ones like that. But that would be getting ahead of yourself. I would say, for now, learn the shapes to make a major chord, a minor chord, a diminished chord etc. Maybe learn them all in C so that you can see the difference between C E G and C Eb Gb etc. Those shapes can be moved anywhere around the neck. Then you can start on 7th chords and playing the notes with other shapes (inversions) etc.

Edit: Sorry if this isn't explained too clearly, I'm sort of just throwing it out cause I'm in a hurry.

[Dredmahawkus]

is that why like in a basic blues riff you play A C# E....D F# A and not the A C E DFE....it sounds funny.

[Dredmahawkus]

I really need to thank all of you! I learned more in these posts then I have in 3 weeks reading on the net....trying to follow these online lessons and watching youtubes. thank you guys!

[Shakin-Slim]

In a blues the major triads you listed (the ones with the #s) and the minor ones should both work well, in context. Blues is a funny thing where minor thirds (the C and F in those two chords) work just as well over the major chords. Just rely on your ear. If it isn't 'right', but still sounds good to you, as in the case of minor thirds over major triads in the blues, soul, funk, jazz etc, then it is 'right'.

[MalcolmAmos]

Getting in late, however, the following has been a friend. The major scale box is my rosetta stone.

I found Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com and Ed's book "Building Walking Bass Lines" to be on track and both have great value. There is one more bass line book I would recommend, "Bass lines in minutes" by Kris Berg. "Bass Guitar for Dummies" is a good refresher book, as it has a little bit of everything you will be using. Your public library will probably have a copy.

My old standby chart of generic bass lines using the major scale box as a Rosetta stone may help:
Quote:
Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box.

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Basic Chords
• Major Triad = R-3-5
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5
7th Chords
• Maj7 = R-3-5-7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change will keep you gigging.

Scales
• Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Home base
• Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Leave out the 4 & 7
• Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
• Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Leave out the 2 & 6.
• Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note b5 added.
• Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor with a natural 7.
• Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.
Let the major scale be your home base then change a few notes and you have something different. No need to memorize a zillion patterns. Let the major scale pattern be your go to pattern - then adapt/adjust from there.

Major modes
• Ionian same as the Major Scale.
• Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4 - yes, it’s that simple.
• Mixolydian use the major scale and flat the 7. Change one note.....

Minor Modes
• Aeolian same as the Natural Minor scale.
• Dorian use the Natural Minor scale and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6. Change one note.
• Phrygian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2. Again change one note.
• Locrian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2 and the 5. OK here you have to change two notes.

Modal Harmony - the rest of the story.
• If you play your modes over a chord progression you will probably only hear the tonal center of your progression.
• However, if you play your modes over a modal vamp the vamp will sustain the modal mood long enough for the modal mood to be heard. The modal vamp droning effect will sustain the modal mood. Where with a chord progression the chords change so quickly that the modal mood does not have time to develop. Modal vamps of one to two chords let the modal mood be heard. http://www.riddleworks.com/modalharm3.html
Scales and modes are for the melody - your solo. Chord tones are for your accompaniment bass line. Of course that's IMHO. To solo let the melody be your guide. Yep, melody has to be in there some place. Counting on running a scale or a mode and letting that be your lead solo - good luck. The song's tune is the foundation for your solo or your improvisation of that tune. Let the melody be your guide. OK easy said, hard to do. As the melody and the chord line to harmonize must share some of the same notes at the same time in the song -- and as the songwriter has already taken all that into account - inserting the harmonizing chord where needed - it makes since to play the chord's pentatonic scale over the chord - as that scale will have three chord tones and two safe passing notes in it's makeup. Play the chord's pentatonic scale notes over the chord changes as your melody solo right at first. Major chord - major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6 and minor chord - minor pentatonic R-b3-4-5-b7. Mix the notes up, no need to just run them in scale order. Think generic licks made from pentatonic notes and move those licks around with the chord changes.
Hal Galper's Master Class - Musical Vocabulary - YouTube R-3-5-3-6 8-5-R or 3-5-8-8-6-5-3-R. Make up some that sound good to you. Twenty licks used a hundred ways......


Generic Notes - for your bass line.
• The root, five and eight are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
• The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
• The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
• The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
• The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
• The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6’s. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
• The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don’t linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
• In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
• Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.

[AMp'D.2play]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

are major 3rds and 5ths all by skipping a note like A C E .......GBD ect? whats the difference between a major 3rd and a perfect 5th?

Check out JTE's reply (#6) in this thread where John goes into stacking thirds. (And, yes, actually make the effort to write them down on paper.) It is one of his stock replies over the years, & it was a lightbulb moment for me when it came down to understanding the notes that make up most of the types of chords you'll run into ... and why you end up with a major, minor, dominant, &/or half-diminished chord.

[nicopiano]

Originally Posted by wcnewby

I don't want to start one of those notes vs tab wars. I did it once before. Search "sorting notes and tab" I posted that about the same place you are now.

What I have found is that my brain is lazy. If there is tab, I look at it. Then I don't learn anything about where the notes are. Cover them up with tape then never buy a book with tab again. Not if you want to learn your notes.

Why? It is hard, it is boring it sucks. If it was easy everybody would know their notes. It takes commitment and it doesn't happen fast. Keep at it and soon you will know to your fifth fret. Then, go back and play all your stupid easy songs with no open strings. Then play them in a different place on your neck.

When you know your notes and scales you can derive chords from that knowledge.... for example. A major chord is the first, third, and fifth note of any scale. Gmaj is G,B,D. When you know the pattern of your scales it is easy to remember the position of the first third and fifth note. Hence, you will know what to play when the guitar is doing G. Any of those notes will fit because the guitarist makes all of the strings G,B,D to make a Gmaj.

Never fear, there are only 44 different chord constructions, but once you know them and the scales, you have it all. I've been doing it for a year now, and I am not there yet. Some people never get there.

God hates a coward. Do the boring stuff I gaurantee you wont regret having the extra knowledge.

+1

[nicopiano]

I think the op just need a good bass teacher because there is so many approach...

[MalcolmAmos]

+ 1 to stacking 3rds. Seeing it come alive on paper was a big WOW.

[Dredmahawkus]

Originally Posted by AMp'D.2play

Check out JTE's reply (#6) in this thread where John goes into stacking thirds. (And, yes, actually make the effort to write them down on paper.) It is one of his stock replies over the years, & it was a lightbulb moment for me when it came down to understanding the notes that make up most of the types of chords you'll run into ... and why you end up with a major, minor, dominant, &/or half-diminished chord.

that was a great post explaining why the notes are....just wondering from a total beginner standpoint....should I learn what the notes are first or why the notes are first? how should I go about starting to learn the chords? should I learn what the notes are of every chord first....or why the notes are..or just where the notes are! man I wish I started this when I was younger! but I am determained to understand it all!

[Dredmahawkus]

well beginning my journey I picked out 3 chords to practice Cmj7 Gmj7 and Dmj7...and I think just the notes might be a zeppelin song. hitting every note in each chord twice except the last note.

[Dredmahawkus]

WOW that studybass website is wonderful! If I buy anything from GC I Will only buy it through their link! so they make money! what a great thing someone would do to teach all this and a way to understand it! I think I found my way for a couple months till I get all these lessons down. Thank you for the person who posted that link! and thank you to all the people explaining everything! by reading all the posts I actually understand what they are talking about on the studybass lessons!
I am not even touching my bass this week just reading lessons. ( I actually cant its going to the luthier to get lindy fralins installed and new flatwounds put on and set up) again thanks everyone for helping me understand!

[Dredmahawkus]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Getting in late, however, the following has been a friend. The major scale box is my rosetta stoneI found Online Bass Lessons at StudyBass.com and Ed's book "Building Walking Bass Lines" to be on track and both have great value. There is one more bass line book I would recommend, "Bass lines in minutes" by Kris Berg. "Bass Guitar for Dummies" is a good refresher book, as it has a little bit of everything you will be using. Your public library will probably have a copy.

My old standby chart of generic bass lines using the major scale box as a Rosetta stone may help:
Quote:
Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box.
Code:

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Basic Chords
• Major Triad = R-3-5
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5
7th Chords
• Maj7 = R-3-5-7
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change will keep you gigging.

Scales
• Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Home base
• Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Leave out the 4 & 7
• Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
• Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Leave out the 2 & 6.
• Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note b5 added.
• Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor with a natural 7.
• Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.
Let the major scale be your home base then change a few notes and you have something different. No need to memorize a zillion patterns. Let the major scale pattern be your go to pattern - then adapt/adjust from there.

Major modes
• Ionian same as the Major Scale.
• Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4 - yes, it’s that simple.
• Mixolydian use the major scale and flat the 7. Change one note.....

Minor Modes
• Aeolian same as the Natural Minor scale.
• Dorian use the Natural Minor scale and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6. Change one note.
• Phrygian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2. Again change one note.
• Locrian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2 and the 5. OK here you have to change two notes.

Modal Harmony - the rest of the story.
• If you play your modes over a chord progression you will probably only hear the tonal center of your progression.
• However, if you play your modes over a modal vamp the vamp will sustain the modal mood long enough for the modal mood to be heard. The modal vamp droning effect will sustain the modal mood. Where with a chord progression the chords change so quickly that the modal mood does not have time to develop. Modal vamps of one to two chords let the modal mood be heard. http://www.riddleworks.com/modalharm3.html
Scales and modes are for the melody - your solo. Chord tones are for your accompaniment bass line. Of course that's IMHO. To solo let the melody be your guide. Yep, melody has to be in there some place. Counting on running a scale or a mode and letting that be your lead solo - good luck. The song's tune is the foundation for your solo or your improvisation of that tune. Let the melody be your guide. OK easy said, hard to do. As the melody and the chord line to harmonize must share some of the same notes at the same time in the song -- and as the songwriter has already taken all that into account - inserting the harmonizing chord where needed - it makes since to play the chord's pentatonic scale over the chord - as that scale will have three chord tones and two safe passing notes in it's makeup. Play the chord's pentatonic scale notes over the chord changes as your melody solo right at first. Major chord - major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6 and minor chord - minor pentatonic R-b3-4-5-b7. Mix the notes up, no need to just run them in scale order. Think generic licks made from pentatonic notes and move those licks around with the chord changes.
Hal Galper's Master Class - Musical Vocabulary - YouTube R-3-5-3-6 8-5-R or 3-5-8-8-6-5-3-R. Make up some that sound good to you. Twenty licks used a hundred ways......


Generic Notes - for your bass line.
• The root, five and eight are generic and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
• The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
• The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
• The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
• The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
• The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6’s. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
• The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don’t linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing.
• In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
• Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.

.

can someone tell me what the b means in R-b3-5

I get that in a major7 its R-3-5-7 but in minor7 when its R-b3-5-7 whats the "b" mean? on the scale?

[Bainbridge]

"Flat". So, if C is your root, then 3 is E. b3 will be Eb, which is a half-step (one fret) lower than E.

[Dredmahawkus]

ok I just got confused there....I didnt think there was a Eb I thought it was a D# which would be on a different fret?....is Eb and D# the same? is R-3b-5 played on the R-C, 3b-Eb/D# (one fret up from the E)....then 5 the G?

ok I got it...one fret up from the E.....D# and Eb is the same.

[Bainbridge]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

ok I just got confused there....I didnt think there was a Eb I thought it was a D# which would be on a different fret?....is Eb and D# the same? is R-3b-5 played on the R-C, 3b-Eb/D# (one fret up from the E)....then 5 the G?

ok I got it...one fret up from the E.....D# and Eb is the same.

Yes. When one tone sounds the same but has two different note names, those notes are said to be "enharmonically equivalent". Eb and D# are two such notes, as are G# and Ab, F# and Gb, C# & Db, E & Fb, B & Cb...

However, you can't use the names interchangeably in certain contexts. For example, a Cm triad is spelled C Eb G, not C D# G.

[Commreman]

Send me a PM with your e mail and I'll send you a PDF copy of Jeff Berlin's August '98 BP column with exercises that will keep you busy a LONG time with chord tone studies.

[Shakin-Slim]

Originally Posted by Bainbridge

However, you can't use the names interchangeably in certain contexts. For example, a Cm triad is spelled C Eb G, not C D# G.

Which is to do with the key signature. A good way to think of it is "what action am I using to get this note?" In the case of Cm, you're not getting the flat 3rd by raising the 2nd (D), you're getting it by flattening the 3rd, therefore it is Eb, not D#.

Sounds like you need a bass teacher and some theory books