how to learn chord notes?

[Dredmahawkus]

yeah I do....I am going to have to get a teacher once I get a little more down I can do without a teacher....that studybass site is awesome. like 10 min after you explained to me why in a C Eb G its a Eb not a D# I read the lesson on study bass that explained why!

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

........that was a great post explaining why the notes are....just wondering from a total beginner standpoint....should I learn what the notes are first or why the notes are first? how should I go about starting to learn the chords? should I learn what the notes are of every chord first....or why the notes are..or just where the notes are! man I wish I started this when I was younger! but I am determained to understand it all!

Good question. IMO we first run our scales. Why? To get our fingers moving on the strings. I use the major scale box for this. C scale - place the box's R (root) on the 4th string 8th fret and play the R-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 scale degrees of the box. You just played the C major scale. Go back and look at post # 27.

Want the G major scale - place the box's R on the 4th string 3rd fret and run that same R-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 and you just played the G major scale. Take that box pattern and play the C, G, D, A & E major scales.

Do this until you can run those scales in your sleep. What you are working toward is knowing where each of those scale degrees are on your fretboard. If you are on a C note and want to go next to a D note - where is it? Answer; same string as the C and up two frets. Where would the E note be? Up a string from the C and back one fret, etc. etc.

Now lets take on the natural minor scale. Use that same major scale box, but, this time instead of using the R-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 degrees flat the 3, 6 & 7 -- R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 that is the scale degree formula for the natural minor scale. Take that box pattern and play the Cm, Gm, Dm, Am & Em scales.

Do this until you can run those scales in your sleep.

It's now a month from now ----- you have your fingers moving on the fretboard. You are ready for chords. Using that same major scale box pattern....... we will now just use some of the scale notes - see why I had you start with scales. Now we will need the R-3-5-7 notes of the scale to make our chords, yes sometime we will be using the b3 or b7..... the flatted 3 & 7, not a step for a stepper as you already know how to move around on your fretboard.

A major chord is made of the R-3-5 scale degrees of R's scale.
A minor chord is made of the R-b3-5 scale degrees of R's scale. --- It's not rocket science.
A major seven is made of the R-3-5-7.
A dominant seven is made of the R-3-5-b7
A minor seven is made of the R-b3-5-b7

Call up some fake chord sheet music on your favorite song. Look at the chords used in the song. Practice playing the chord's notes (scale degrees). Put those note combinations into muscle memory - like you did with your scales. Root on 1, if you have time add the 5, still have time before the music goes off and leaves you add the correct 3 & 7. Get as many chord tones into the music as the music will allow.
http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/h/ha..._heart_crd.htm Notice each verse will use the same progression and the chords are placed in the same spots for each verse. Again, it's not rocket science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35zS1tVO3o Sound like a generic bass line?

Scales first, chords next. When you are ready for chords call up some fake chord sheet music and let the sheet music tell you which chords to play. Again look at post # 27 for what notes (scale degrees) it takes to make a chord.

It's a journey, best done one step at a time.

[Sni77]

I always found this website useful:
http://www.musicopedia.com/arpeggio/4-bass.php

[Dredmahawkus]

I can do the major scale in my sleep....I never knew the minor. I will practice that next. I have been saying A C E G B D F to myself for 2 days trying to get the major7 scale down. all the formulas like R-3-5-7 I was looking for all over the place and couldnt find it till you guys showed me. now Its months of practicing scales and getting familiar with the chords. theres some maj7 chords I can remember easy like C G A D .....but E F B I have to think about it and like think about what notes I have to play first....guess its all practice! thank you for the info Malcom! very useful! I had no idea what the minor scale was! now I can practice that.

[MalcolmAmos]

I think in scale degrees, i.e. R-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 not C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C, I know that the C chord is made of the C-E-G notes, but, when playing I let the major scale box pattern take over. See what Scott has to say on this subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNq4GVoy5I


Have fun.

[JTE]

Learning chord notes is something you can easily do without an instrument in your hands. Start with being able to correctly spell all the diatonic major scales- that means you not only know that Eb has a Bb, but you understand WHY it's not A#! So, learn W W H W W W H to construct a major scale, and practice that in your head for all 12 keys. Note I did NOT say "memorize" the scales. LEARN them. There are still keys I have to stop and think about for a few seconds, but the ones I play in all the time come to me automatically now.

Now that you can build the major scale from any root, learn a few basic chord constructions. Learn them in terms of both the intervals from the root of the major scale, but also in terms of the stacked thirds. I think it's critical to understand at least these (all examples are from the C root):

Major chord- 1, 3, 5; major third with a minor third on top; C E G
Minor chord- 1, b3, 5; minor third with a major third on top; C Eb G
(Dominant) 7 Chord- 1, 3, 5, b7; major third, minor third, then minor third; C E G Bb
Minor 7 chord- 1, b3, 5, b7; minor third/major third/minor third; C Eb G Bb.
Major 7 chord- 1, 3, 5, 7; major third/minor third/major third; C E G B
Augmented chord- 1, 3 #5; major third on top of a major third; C E G#
Diminished triad- 1, b3, b5; minor third with a minor third on top; C Eb Gb
Diminished chord 1, b3, b5, bb7; minor third/minor third/minor third; C Eb Gb Bbb (and know why it's B double flat, not A!!!)

Then you can take any of those major scales you taught yourself to spell, and you can apply the formula to get the chord. What's a Bb7? Bb scale is Bb C D Eb F G A Bb, so 1, 3, 5 is Bb, D F. What's a Gmin7? G scale is G A B C D E F# so 1, b3, 5, b7 is G, Bb, D, F.

Do that while you're on the bus, waiting in line, etc.

John

[Rick Blanc]

Originally Posted by Commreman

Send me a PM with your e mail and I'll send you a PDF copy of Jeff Berlin's August '98 BP column with exercises that will keep you busy a LONG time with chord tone studies.

Can I get in on that offer?

[Dredmahawkus]

Thanks JTE! This is great info on scales and chords! I had no idea about scales and chords a couple weeks ago. I mean I knew they existed but didn't know the formulas. Now with this incredible info on how to play the scales and all the formulas for the chords I feel like I have months of learning them all before I even try to apply them to song.

Like I stated I played guitar when I was younger and just jammed around with friends from tab books (yes remember books in the 80s?) there wasn't all this info available like today. I chose bass this time and doing it the right way and actually learning music. Not just how to play something from tabs. Thank you guys so much for helping me understand this! Once I feel comfortable knowing where all the notes are and where and why all the chords are I am going to start looking for a teacher who only teaches bass.

[ntenny]

Some years ago, I sat down with a pile of paper (remember paper?) and a bass and worked out every possible voicing of every "reasonable" chord (I don't remember exactly where I stopped; you gotta draw the line somewhere) from first principles. I ended up with what amounted to one of those comprehensive chord books, but of my own making, so I knew its contents a whole lot better than if I'd bought someone else's work and tried to learn it.

It got kind of tedious, my housemate thought I was insane, but *boy*, did I know some chord voicings for bass by the time I was done. Turning a chord name into notes doesn't require a lot of theoretical background; major and (natural) minor scales at a minimum, preferably diminished and augmented scales, and the conventions of chord notation, and that's it.

Later, I got a lot of mileage out of Marc Sabatella's jazz improvisation primer (http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/), particularly the section on chord/scale relationships.

-NT

[Ed Fuqua]

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, even if it IS hard to hear over the whirring of hamster wheels, the reason you don't sound like Sonny Rollins isn't because he knows some scale you don't.

[ntenny]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, even if it IS hard to hear over the whirring of hamster wheels, the reason you don't sound like Sonny Rollins isn't because he knows some scale you don't.

No, it's because saxophones don't have strings. :-)

But seriously, you *do* have to have the vocabulary before you can speak the language. At the basic level of learning major and minor scales and getting chords under your hands, I'd actually disagree with your point. There are many other reasons not to sound like Sonny Rollins, but if you don't know an appropriate set of scales and chords inside out and backwards, that actually *is* one of the reasons you don't sound like him!

-NT

[Ed Fuqua]

Feel free to, it would be nice to hear what that sounds like. Do you have any soundfiles up anywhere?

[ntenny]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Feel free to, it would be nice to hear what that sounds like. Do you have any soundfiles up anywhere?

I'm confused---is this in answer to my last post? I certainly don't sound anything like Sonny Rollins, I'm just saying that a knowledge of chord/scale fundamentals is a prerequisite for playing that well. I agree completely that it's not enough by itself.

-NT

[Dredmahawkus]

I found this great presentation to show patterns of scales on a guitar.

http://musictheory.tripod.com/scales.htm

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Getting in late, however, the following has been a friend. The major scale box is my rosetta stone.

hum I don't see the augmented chord/arpeggio

[MalcolmAmos]

I understand it's part of the mix and is a strong pull to the tonic chord. However, I seldom see it used in the music I play. It's just something I do not think of.

[mambo4]

Malcom's 'rosetta stone' post has no augmented chords/triads because it's a map of harmony derived from the diatonic major scale -which contains no augmented chords.

[Commreman]

Originally Posted by Rick Blanc

Can I get in on that offer?

Sure.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by ntenny

I'm confused---is this in answer to my last post? I certainly don't sound anything like Sonny Rollins, I'm just saying that a knowledge of chord/scale fundamentals is a prerequisite for playing that well. I agree completely that it's not enough by itself.
-NT

Sure, you say you disagree with me and that's fine. But if I say one thing and you say another, it is going to be advantageous for anyone trying to assess how useful either my advice or your advice will be for them is to hear how I sound and how you sound. If I advise a certain course of action, based on my experience, and the way I play has no appeal, then they'd be foolish to take my advice.
And vice versa...

[ntenny]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Sure, you say you disagree with me and that's fine. But if I say one thing and you say another, it is going to be advantageous for anyone trying to assess how useful either my advice or your advice will be for them is to hear how I sound and how you sound.

I have the feeling we're missing each other here; I don't think I disagree with you. Unless---are you actually saying that you *don't* think it's necessary to know basic theory to be a world-class jazz player? That would surprise me greatly, but I didn't think it was really what you meant.

Hearing me play wouldn't change anyone's mind, I think. You've probably heard plenty of ordinarily competent rock and blues bass players already. If you feel it's necessary, I'm happy to acknowledge sight unheard (based on profile contents) that you play a whole lot better on your worst day than I do on my best.

-NT