How much do you rely on patterns when you play?

[mcpancakes]

What I mean is, for example, something like 'the blues scale has THIS shape to it' or 'a major third is up a string and one fret down'. I know it's not good and am actively trying to rely more on playing via knowing what notes I'm playing (string instruments make it all too easy to rely on patterns; wind players on the other hand have no option but to do it right!), instead of whizzing through a pattern. So my question is how much do you rely on these sorts of patterns, and how good/bad do you think it is to do?

[90k]

I built a career on just that. knowing my scales, a good ear and great chops, good tone and dynamic control helps. Also some basic theory. I doubt in this day and age, with all that is out there, and given the competition that you would get far with only these skills.

[Nalte]

I rely almost exclusively on patterns... "Ok, if we're in the key of G, then here's my root so I can also see where the 4th, 5th, 6th, and everything else are." It has always worked fine for me.

[agreatheight]

I try to not rely on patterns too much, at least consciously. I try to hear melodies in my head as much as possible.

[truecanadian04]

As a bass player, there a must!!!...Learn as many scales as you can remember and learn to play them in as many different keys...this will help you to be ready for any sisuation and give you more confidence when playing.

[jmattbassplaya]

Actually, that's a good thing. Knowing patterns is a step towards knowing intervals, and that armed with a good ear and basic understanding of theory is the makings for a very good bassist.

[mcpancakes]

That's a good point; if someone asks me 'what's a minor 6th up from Eb' I can imagine the fretboard and respond 'B' without too much hesitation.

[KingRazor]

Patterns help make the playing more "automatic".

[AMp'D.2play]

Originally Posted by mcpancakes

That's a good point; if someone asks me 'what's a minor 6th up from Eb' I can imagine the fretboard and respond 'B' without too much hesitation.

Technically, wouldn't the correct answer be Cb?

[MalcolmAmos]

Patterns. Place the root and play the intervals.

[snyderz]

I play in a strictly blues band. Yes, I play a pattern or two.

[Richard Lindsey]

This will probably sound vague, but ... I would say that it is important to understand and see patterns, but not to play them so much.

Obscure much?

What I mean is that there are undeniably some finger patterns inherent in the layout of the fingerboard. If you put your finger on any given spot, particular intervals are going to be at specific locations relative to that initial spot, and this is useful to know. If I have my finger on the G on the 5th fret of the D string, the patterns I've internalized tell me that the next Bb flat up from that G will be on the 8th fret of the D string or the 3rd fret of the G string (or the 13th fret of the A string or the 18th fret of the E string).

And there are fingering patterns you can learn that bring certain sets of notes under your hands in more or less easy ways. These are useful to learn too.

So it's useful to be able to see these relations of the fingerboard and to understand what the relations are.

But the problem with focusing excessively on patterns, to me, is that it's too easy to get locked into them. If you learn a sequence only from, say, 5th position, you may be at a loss if you can't get to that position (eg, because of something you had to play in the measure before) and have to try to do it from, say, 2nd position.

I would say that the idea, rather, is to focus on the notes you want to get, and then see what fingerings and positionings can get you there.

For example, you could take a simple sequence like A C# E F# G F# E C# A and see how many ways you can finger it. Start with your 2nd finger or your 4th, or an open string. Try positions closer to the nut, then try positions farther up the neck.

The point would be to focus primarily on the tones you're trying to get. You are playing the notes, not the patterns; the patterns are just ways to make the physical aspect of producing notes easier.

There's another aspect to patterns, and that involves musical patterns rather than fingering patterns per se. A type of music may have certain "figures" that recur commonly and are part of the vocabulary of that music. Say, a boogie-woogie bass pattern, or a particular blues turnaround. To sound right in your type of music, you may need to use these patterns as necessary, and there's nothing wrong with that. I would just say that even in these cases, it's probably more helpful in the long run to think of them as being primarily about notes and not about fingering; fingering patterns are just aids to getting the notes.

Is that helpful at all?

[So Low Bass]

Patterns are very important. They make every key accessible to you and train your ear to know what’s going to come out. When reading music, a pro can spot an Eb triad or a D major scale by the shape/look of the ink on the page. This is much faster than reading “Eb, G, Bb”. Think of shapes instead of notes.

The patterns in your repertoire are a huge part of your “bass signature” that makes you different from everyone else. Analyzing the patterns of a Sir Paul or Joe Osborn opens fingering doors. Don’t imitate …emulate them.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

This will probably sound vague, but ... I would say that it is important to understand and see patterns, but not to play them so much.

Obscure much?

What I mean is that there are undeniably some finger patterns inherent in the layout of the fingerboard. If you put your finger on any given spot, particular intervals are going to be at specific locations relative to that initial spot, and this is useful to know. If I have my finger on the G on the 5th fret of the D string, the patterns I've internalized tell me that the next Bb flat up from that G will be on the 8th fret of the D string or the 3rd fret of the G string (or the 13th fret of the A string or the 18th fret of the E string).

And there are fingering patterns you can learn that bring certain sets of notes under your hands in more or less easy ways. These are useful to learn too.

So it's useful to be able to see these relations of the fingerboard and to understand what the relations are.

But the problem with focusing excessively on patterns, to me, is that it's too easy to get locked into them. If you learn a sequence only from, say, 5th position, you may be at a loss if you can't get to that position (eg, because of something you had to play in the measure before) and have to try to do it from, say, 2nd position.

I would say that the idea, rather, is to focus on the notes you want to get, and then see what fingerings and positionings can get you there.

For example, you could take a simple sequence like A C# E F# G F# E C# A and see how many ways you can finger it. Start with your 2nd finger or your 4th, or an open string. Try positions closer to the nut, then try positions farther up the neck.

The point would be to focus primarily on the tones you're trying to get. You are playing the notes, not the patterns; the patterns are just ways to make the physical aspect of producing notes easier.

There's another aspect to patterns, and that involves musical patterns rather than fingering patterns per se. A type of music may have certain "figures" that recur commonly and are part of the vocabulary of that music. Say, a boogie-woogie bass pattern, or a particular blues turnaround. To sound right in your type of music, you may need to use these patterns as necessary, and there's nothing wrong with that. I would just say that even in these cases, it's probably more helpful in the long run to think of them as being primarily about notes and not about fingering; fingering patterns are just aids to getting the notes.

Is that helpful at all?

+1

I would like to add to check out how to formulate walking bass lines. This teaches you the different types of chords, their function in the scale, and multiple ways to work around the fret board. It can be very boring to learn this, but there is no greater satisfaction than seeing the results.

For shiz and giggles I will assume you do not know anything (not to be offensive, but for me to start from bare bones or close to it)

Say you want to play in C Maj, in a bluesy type of song. This is a great opportunity to use a walking bass line.

You would start with knowing the scale CM dm em FM GM am b dim CM. And then learn how to spell the chord. (CEG, DFA, EGB, FAC, GBD, ACE, BDF, CEG) Now, look at how a C Major closed pattern works on the fret board.
A string, 3rd fret (A-3). That is C.
D string, 2nd fret (D-2). That is E.
- When playing from the root, whenever you play this two note pattern, you are playing a Major 3rd.
D string, 5th fret (D-5). That is G.
- from root (C), to the fifth (G) is the Perfect 5th interval.
Do the same with minor chords, and diminished chords.. then eventually augmented chords.
Add the 7th to the chord (M7, m7, dom7, dim7, and half dim7)

So say you figured all this out, and you are feeling pretty groovy, next try and play up the scale via chord progressions. This will get you back to your starting pointing.

Once you got that under your belt, explore a bit more. Do not just play closed chords (opposed to an open chord) A closed chord is essentially playing each successive note in a chord one after another and completing the chord spelling within one octave.. i.e. C, e, g, b. An open chord plays the same chord, but expands out into the register, and into the next octave. i.e. C, g, c, b (I left out the third, to show it is not always important to play every single note) But then you can play up e, c, g, e, (D-2, A-3, E-3, E-0) This can then lead you into playing the F chord starting on E-1

So, I think this method can be cumbersome cause there is a lot to get down at first, but as a result you learn so much. Scale patterns, chord patterns, intervals, fret board logic, etc.
Hope this has helped!

[Papa Dangerous]

YouTube - ‪Dave Marks Walking Bass lesson 01‬‏

This dude is great. Go through his series. The material can be dry, but the lesson is worth while!

[fearceol]

Papa Dangerous & Richard Lindsey :

Very informative and helpful posts. Thank you.

[Papa Dangerous]

Any time 8) Might I add to check out 9th chords, and that can get you into the jazz feel of things.

[johndough247]

I personally use both, depending on which pops into my brain the fastest at any given time, but I started on piano and then trombone before working on bass.

I agree with what that was said before, but I would suggest (for anyone starting out and reading this) to learn scales and arpeggios in every possible combination:

for example, learn Bb major starting on:
1st position (standard pattern w/ open strings):
Bb (1st fret, A string), C (3, A)
D (open string), Eb (1, D), F (3, D),
G (open string), A (2, G), Bb (3, G)

5th positon (standard pattern w/o open strings):
Bb (6th fret, E string), C (8, E),
D (5, A), Eb (6, A), F (8, A),
G (5, D), A (7, D), Bb (8, D)

those first two patterns were what I call 2-3-3 patterns (i.e. first 2 notes of the scale on one string, then the next 3 notes of the scale on another string, followed by the last 3 notes on the final string).

There's also 3-3-2 patterns (start with index/pointing finger):

(starting on Bb again, 6th fret, E string)
Bb (6, E) C (8, E) D (10, E),
Eb (6, A) F (8, A) G (10, A),
A (7, D), Bb (8, D)

and also 1-3-2-2 patterns (start with pinkie):

(starting on Bb again, 6th fret, E string)
Bb (6,E)
C (3, A), D (5, A), Eb (6, A)
F (3, D), G (5, D)
A (2, G), Bb (3, G)

and last but certainly not least, learn to play the entire scale using only one string. Just remember the following:

half step/semitone: jump to the next fret
whole step/tone: jump 2 frets

Major scale pattern:
whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half
OR
tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, tone, semitone

Always think about the note names while you play the patterns, then you have two guides to help you when playing. That was a mouthful but that's how I started out and it's paid off immensely.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

YouTube - Dave Marks Walking Bass lesson 01 ?

This dude is great. Go through his series. The material can be dry, but the lesson is worth while!

Dave Marks is really a cool dude, very down to earth, friendly and helpful, I had the honor of meeting him in person.

And, I really like patterns, scales and so on.

[ryco]

Patterns are useful in the beginning as a way of learning where all the sounds and phrases you want to play are. It's good to get these under your fingers and into your ears, but in time you may find they become a little limiting. ymmv

It's fun to play the same phrase using different fingerings.