how to properly start playing fretless?

[stranded horse]

Hello,
I've been playing around on my fretless for a while now, but I don't feel like I'm on the right track.
I like fretless because it's easier to play than my other basses. I don't have big intonation problems, but that is just because it is lined. I also want to learn how to properly play fretless because at some point I would like to learn upright too.
But right now I know I can only handle this bass because it is lined, and that won't help me the tiniest bit when I would play upright or a fretless without position markers, so I feel it's time for a new start.
I'm willing to let all the fooling around be, and put some serious practice to it. Sadly I can't afford another bass right now, otherwise I would buy one without lines on the fretboard, so for now I need to try to pretend there were no lines on the fretboard, which given that it's a really cheap bass that has probably never been intonated should not be trused anyways...

So what are the first exercises for the fretless? I don't want to be looking at the fretboard all the time.
I know I have to practice intonation, but I'm looking for some efficient methods.

Thanks a lot in advance, I'm really looking forward to your replies

[Audiophage]

Start with long tones, concentrating on your intonation, particularly within position shifts. Do things like scales, arpeggios, and melodies to strengthen your sense of pitch.

[stranded horse]

I think I need it more basic. How should I approach arpeggios and scales on a fretless?

[Jools4001]

Play scales and arpeggios just like you would on a fretted bass. As you move up the fingerboard you may find that your scales and arpeggios sound as if they are in tune with regards to relative pitch, but may have slipped a bit in terms of absolute pitch, so play a few open strings now and again to check your intonation against wherever you happen to be playing on the fingerboard. Also, try playing all of this with your eyes closed, seriously!

[Engine207]

I'm in the same boat, as I just started getting serious about fretless as a New Year's resolution. I didn't just want to play my fretless like a fretted, so I went looking for a teacher, but most were jazz guys. Surely, they could have taught me lotsa stuff, but I really wanted to keep playing a rock and blues style, so I didn't really find a groove with any of them.

I bought a book called Serious Electric Bass and a cheap little Snark tuner that clips onto my headstock. When I play my scales and arpeggios, I randomly stop on a note and check to see if I'm in tune. Just 30 minutes a day and I've noticed a difference.

Another thing I started doing was focusing on my left hand positioning more. Poor positioning shows up without the frets (or lines) as poor intonation. My next hurdle is to get better at shifting, without sacrificing intonation and re-establishing good hand positioning.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

Hello,
I've been playing around on my fretless for a while now, but I don't feel like I'm on the right track.
I like fretless because it's easier to play than my other basses. I don't have big intonation problems, but that is just because it is lined. I also want to learn how to properly play fretless because at some point I would like to learn upright too.
But right now I know I can only handle this bass because it is lined, and that won't help me the tiniest bit when I would play upright or a fretless without position markers, so I feel it's time for a new start.
I'm willing to let all the fooling around be, and put some serious practice to it. Sadly I can't afford another bass right now, otherwise I would buy one without lines on the fretboard, so for now I need to try to pretend there were no lines on the fretboard, which given that it's a really cheap bass that has probably never been intonated should not be trused anyways...

So what are the first exercises for the fretless? I don't want to be looking at the fretboard all the time.
I know I have to practice intonation, but I'm looking for some efficient methods.

Thanks a lot in advance, I'm really looking forward to your replies

I'll second what the other guys have said, but I'll also add just start playing it on your standards. I.e. the stuff you already know on the fretted, just start playing it on the FL. That's essentially what I did when I got my first FL (my L2000) - I just kept on and kept on until I was more or less able to play in tune and the technique adjustments you need to make will kind of resolve themselves.

As for the lines, I wouldn't worry about them. They won't, IMO, impair you when you move to an unlined. In fact, you may prefer the unlined when you switch to it. I started on unlined but had a couple of lined basses for a while. For me they both helped and hurt - in the upper registers they helped a little, everywhere else they actually screwed me up a bit. But when I went back to the unlined, I pretty much just fell back into it without problems. So I say just play the lined and use the lines as needed to get you started on learning to intonate by ear.

As for intonation, look up some of Steve Bailey's exercises for this on youtube. he's got some excellent exercises that help you get going with intonation.

Finally, don't be too anal about playing in tune - you learn a lot more about controlling your intonation when you screw it up and you're off. How you _correct_ the intonation is really the important part, not whether you just happen to land in the right place or not . So be sure to allow yourself to mess your tuning up as much as possible when you're practicing....

LS

[bassandbeyond]

+1 to the above comments

When I first started playing fretless, I recorded myself playing scales and arpeggios on fretted bass at a very slow tempo, and in all positions. Then I played along with those recordings on fretless, listening carefully to make sure every note sounded in tune with the recording. Nowadays, I do the same intonation practice with a sequencer, for ease of transposition and tempo changes. You could do the same sort of practice with licks, or whole songs.

Lined vs. unlined can be a very touchy subject, but FWIW and IMHO, I don't think there is anything wrong at all with using your eyes and looking at those lines to help you play in tune. Many of the finest fretless players, including the likes of Gary Willis and Michael Manring (who plays unlined basses), advocate using lines. Remember, those lines are not placed arbitrarily. That's where the notes are! (assuming your bass is properly intonated). Good luck to you.

[MNAirHead]

I had a very well known player suggest 5 things.

1-get up in the middle of the night (clear head and not fully awake)
2-turn off the lights
3-put on headphones
4-slow songs known to be in tune.
5-evaulate where you play on fretted basses

if used to playing fretted it is reacclimating time.

[StereoPlayer]

I used to learn to play any bass by looking into a mirror(i know, sounds weird).
Also don't look at your neck...use you ears.
Conflicting answere? yes Looking into a mirror will help with you positions and "fee:, will also help to follow other players.

Not looking at your neck will help of course, but do look every so often for positions,

[MHT75]

Finally, don't be too anal about playing in tune - you learn a lot more about controlling your intonation when you screw it up and you're off. How you _correct_ the intonation is really the important part, not whether you just happen to land in the right place or not . So be sure to allow yourself to mess your tuning up as much as possible when you're practicing....

LS[/quote]

+1 .....

Let your ears guide your hand

[JTE]

A. Don't do anything different on fretless than on fretted. Play the same songs, licks, exercises, etc. You already know what those things sound like so it'll help your intonation.
B. Do NOT use a flanger or chorus on fretless while learning, it'll cover up your intonation which means you won't get better.
C. Play along with fixed pitches and recordings.
D. Play arpeggio and scale exercises, but check your intonation at random times against an open string.
E. Strive to make your fretless playing indistinguishable from your fretted. That means (other than the inescapable timbre effect) YOU are in total control of whether the listener hears fretless or not. Don't play slides, vibrato, etc. because you're a sloppy fretless player, play them because the music calls for it.
F. LISTEN

John

[TheSuzie]

Originally Posted by unclejane

As for intonation, look up some of Steve Bailey's exercises for this on youtube. he's got some excellent exercises that help you get going with intonation.

Steve Bailey's exercise is good for the ears but some folks can be hurt by using the fingering approach he uses when playing in the low registers. Look at the angle of his wrist and also the extreme stretch. That exercise caused my tendinitis to flare up really badly. I found that to hold those octaves in the low registers I have to finger them 1-2-4 in order to avoid injury.

While working on fretless, it is really good to be working on your ear training in general and also to play simple songs that you have heard many thousands of times since childhood. Most of us will have totally internalized the intonation of such songs and be able to instantly know when we are playing them out of tune.

Good Luck,
S

[lowendfriend]

I recommend playing lots of major, minor, pentatonic, blues scales around the Circle of Fourths....then arpeggiated chords around the Circle as well.

Even if you have a 5 string, play the circle as you would on a 4string and then switch to 5 string positioning.

Play as regularly and as long as you can stand it!

Then, simply use it on all the songs you already know and consider what new options you may have.

[Calamity_John]

To all this I would add really being precise and aware of your thumb positioning and consistent with the way your other fingers are relating to it .. check out a traditional upright bass book and see how they approach "positions" .. that said .. don't use this as a crutch for not hearing .. all this stuff said here about ears is the most important thing.

[Kael]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

I don't have big intonation problems, but that is just because it is lined. I also want to learn how to properly play fretless because at some point I would like to learn upright too.
But right now I know I can only handle this bass because it is lined, and that won't help me the tiniest bit when I would play upright or a fretless without position markers, so I feel it's time for a new start.

You are worrying too much about the lines messing with your future upright work. It won't matter if you can play perfectly in tune on a blank plank/unlined fretless bass guitar when you start playing double bass. DB is a completely different instrument and is played differently. There are massive physical references on a DB that allow players to play it sans lines. Bass guitar doesn't have those physical references. DB also has a much larger scale length. The longer scale length gives you a larger area to intonate on and still be reasonably in tune. My first bass guitar was an unlined short scale fretless acoustic. I think it is right around 28" scale. That little bugger was a PITA to play in tune. Bottom line, very little to none of your fretless bass guitar savvy will translate to the big bass.

I play both DB and fretless bass guitar and gig out about 4 to 5 times a week. I only use lined fretless bass guitars. Those lines can save your ass if you are on a loud stage without adequate monitoring. I wouldn't recommend buying an unlined fretless ever. I especially would not recommend purchasing one to get a head start on playing DB.

Just keep playing the dang thing and eventually ween yourself off of looking at your hands once muscle memory sets in.

[M0ses]

Dude, just close your eyes. Start slow.

[Stick_Player]

... play a few open strings now and again to check your intonation against wherever you happen to be playing on the fingerboard.

Yes.

I prefer to use a drone - a LONG held note from and organ or synth will do. Nothing better than this method to develop the muscle memory of your fingering (not fretting) hand while simultaneously developing your ear.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by Kael

I especially would not recommend purchasing one to get a head start on playing DB.

Very much agreed.
The two have very little to do with each other in terms of mechanical technique. Sure you have to figure out how play in tune but what you have to do to play n tune on each is radically different.

[devine]

Yeah, I agree with the other guys... Playing fretless is VERY different from playing upright. If you wanna get into playing the upright just do it.

Also, don't beat yourself up because you use lines on your fretless... Most of the great fretless players have lines or markers, for instance... Gary Willis, Jaco Patorius, Alain Caron etc etc.

Scott.

http://www.scottsbasslessons.com

http://www.scottdevinemusic.com

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by devine

Also, don't beat yourself up because you use lines on your fretless... Most of the great fretless players have lines or markers, for instance... Gary Willis, Jaco Patorius, Alain Caron etc etc.

Not to mention that on the double bass you have guide points and a view of the fingerboard that doesn't exist on the bass guitar. Lines are more than ok...heck, I'd bet the majority of players that double on both instruments use basses with those metal lines that stick out from the fingerboard.