How should I approach this? (reading)

[sir juice]

I started playing trumpet when I was 7 and reading was the first thing I was taught. Treble clef was second nature to me.

I recently stopped playing trumpet, but my previous knowledge of reading is really hindering my reading of the bass clef with the bass guitar.

When I sightread bass clef I find that instead of actual reading the notes, I quickly work out the interval and play the same interval on the bass guitar, without any consideration for the actual notes being played, I never think of the notes on either the bass or the stave, merely the interval.

This ends up being pretty hit and miss and really isn't helping me at all.

How should I read while serious paying attention to the notes (ie the names of the notes) while playing in time?

Any ideas?

Thanks

[leanne]

Originally Posted by sir juice

I started playing trumpet when I was 7 and reading was the first thing I was taught. Treble clef was second nature to me.

I recently stopped playing trumpet, but my previous knowledge of reading is really hindering my reading of the bass clef with the bass guitar.

When I sightread bass clef I find that instead of actual reading the notes, I quickly work out the interval and play the same interval on the bass guitar, without any consideration for the actual notes being played, I never think of the notes on either the bass or the stave, merely the interval.

This ends up being pretty hit and miss and really isn't helping me at all.

How should I read while serious paying attention to the notes (ie the names of the notes) while playing in time?

Any ideas?

Thanks

I went from treble clef to bass clef as well, and I do not really remember how I got over seeing the bass clef notes as treble clef notes. I would assume this is what I did (and therefore the only advice i can give): Practice reading bass clef more! Look at notes on the bass clef, obviously trying to focus on the fact that it is the bass clef, and play them, while thinking about what note you are playing. It might sound too simple, but really, what could be easier? For example, look at the middle line on the bass clef, and think D, and play a D, and do it over and over, for all the notes. Or write out the notes along with the notation on the bass clef, and/or the fret locations, for tunes you practice. You just need to get used to it. You know it isn't difficult, just do it.

[jperalta]

Practice reading it, playing it, etc. Get a book with easy songs for bass guitar (or trombone, tuba, bari horn, whatever) that starts out only making you use a few notes and then progressively moves to the rest. Just read music. That's how you learn to read music. And yes it will suck that you already know how to read one clef and you think you should be able to read the other one already, I had the same experience when I moved from trumpet to baritone horn and we finally came to a song that we didn't have treble clef music for. It's frustrating, but it doesn't take that long to learn to read one clef if you know another already.

[steve66]

You just need to practice reading. I use to copy a piece of music on staff paper and write the notes in the spaces and lines. I didnt worry about note values. After writing a few pages of music, you eventually learn the notes.

[Michael Case]

Learn the note names and the layout of the bass. Or as I like to say, practice.

[NoGraveConcern]

Interesting question. I started out reading bass clef for trombone, moved to treble clef for guitar and back to bass clef when I picked up bass. Anyway, the only advice I have is slow, deliberate practice and singing the note name as you play it.

[BassChuck]

Just keep working at it... its a process not an event. I would say that anyone who is thinking of the note names as they read music is quite a distance from really reading well. In the end the symbol on the page means a sound that you make with your instrument, intermediate steps like figuring the interval, counting lines or thinking of note names just means that you've got a ways to go. Keep working, if you did it on one instrument you'll be able to do it on another.

I started on trumpet and got a music degree with it. Then switched to french horn for grad school while I learned bass. I can read both clefs very well, but I find it very difficult to read bass clef when holding a trumpet and difficult to think of treble clef when holding a bass. French horn is not a problem cause you have to learn both clefs with horn in orchestral music.

The brain is a weird place to live.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

I started on trumpet and got a music degree with it. Then switched to french horn for grad school while I learned bass. I can read both clefs very well, but I find it very difficult to read bass clef when holding a trumpet and difficult to think of treble clef when holding a bass. French horn is not a problem cause you have to learn both clefs with horn in orchestral music.

What French horn music are you playing that's in bass clef? I played horn for 13 years and I don't think I ever saw anything written in other that treble clef. Mind you I played a double horn with a F and Bb side and the lowest note I could play reliably was F# below middle C (written) and that was with shoving my jaw as far forward as possible.

As far as reading the intervals between the notes, what difference does it make? I think that's the way I do it too because a dot on a line or space is just a symbol for a pitch but I don't really think about it. I might have thought about individual note names 25 years ago when I first started piano lessons but now I never think of the notes as I play. That would be like trying to read this entire post one letter at a time.

[lexxmexx]

I always wonder why must they make it so hard. Can't they just standardize one clef where all musicians can read without having to worry about whether it's a treble, bass, tenor or alto clef?

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by lexxmexx

I always wonder why must they make it so hard. Can't they just standardize one clef where all musicians can read without having to worry about whether it's a treble, bass, tenor or alto clef?

Do you like reading ledger lines? That's why.

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

What French horn music are you playing that's in bass clef? I played horn for 13 years and I don't think I ever saw anything written in other that treble clef. Mind you I played a double horn with a F and Bb side and the lowest note I could play reliably was F# below middle C (written) and that was with shoving my jaw as far forward as possible.

As far as reading the intervals between the notes, what difference does it make? I think that's the way I do it too because a dot on a line or space is just a symbol for a pitch but I don't really think about it. I might have thought about individual note names 25 years ago when I first started piano lessons but now I never think of the notes as I play. That would be like trying to read this entire post one letter at a time.

What chair did you play? 2nd and 4th horn can sometimes camp out in the basement low enough to warrant bass clef.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

What chair did you play? 2nd and 4th horn can sometimes camp out in the basement low enough to warrant bass clef.

1st thru 4th chair. We didn't need to have egos and everybody in the section got to mix it up and play different parts. Even in 3rd and 4th horn parts I never saw anything other than treble clef. Maybe a few ledger lines (no more than 3 below, F or G).

For a lot of contemporary wind ensemble music the horns doubled the alto saxes. Timbre was similar. Except for marches where the horns just played offbeats. And "Pomp and Circumstance" where the horns just played quarter notes on the beat ad infinitum.

[tZer]

Really there is no substitute for learning to read it. As others have said, get a decent reference (any beginner piano/bass method book) and start getting to know what's up.

Bass Clef mnemonics:

Lines (read from bottom up) = G B D F A:
----------------------------- (A)lways

----------------------------- (F)ine

----------------------------- (D)o

----------------------------- (B)oys

----------------------------- (G)ood


and spaces (bottom up) = A C E G:
-----------------------------
(G)rass
-----------------------------
(E)at
-----------------------------
(C)ows
-----------------------------
(A)ll
-----------------------------


Treble Clef mnemonics:

Lines (read from bottom up) = E G B D F:
----------------------------- (F)ine

----------------------------- (D)oes

----------------------------- (B)oy

----------------------------- (G)ood

----------------------------- (E)very


and spaces (bottom up) = F A C E (no real mnemonic here - just spells "face":
-----------------------------
(E)
-----------------------------
(C)
-----------------------------
(A)
-----------------------------
(F)
-----------------------------


Get yourself some bass music and start practicing. There really is no substitute or short cut.