How Should a Teacher be Teaching?

[Paul4703]

Hi,

Going for my first bass lesson this weekend. I know what I should be learning; scales, modes, chords, grooves, reading standard notation, etc. etc. But how should he be teaching me this over the coming months?

Cheers,

Paul.

[N.F.A.]

Maybe a more useful question for you is what kind of learner are you? Find an online article about learning styles and see how you are wired. In this way, whatever your teacher shares with you can be taken to the next level and locked in better based on your learning style. Here is one line I found in 10 seconds of googling..
http://www.ldpride.net/learning-style-test.html EDIT: They want you to pay for the results, someone here said. Here is a nice little chart of some of the learning styles..
http://www.chaminade.org/INSPIRE/learnstl.htm

[basmartin]

Originally Posted by N.F.A.

Maybe a more useful question for you is what kind of learner are you? Find an online article about learning styles and see how you are wired. In this way, whatever your teacher shares with you can be taken to the next level and locked in better based on your learning style. Here is one line I found in 10 seconds of googling..
http://www.ldpride.net/learning-style-test.html

You´ll have to pay to see the results...

[N.F.A.]

Oh sorry, I didn't take the test. Well if nothing else the questions themselves give you some insight in to different ways to learn. Keep googling. It's an important and often overlooked part of learning.

[Ed Fuqua]

Yes everyone has different ways that they learn, but WHAT they need to learn doesn't change. You ask HOW they should teach, but I think what you are really trying to ask is "how will the teacher make sure I get what's going on before we move on?"
A good teacher won't have one way of teaching, they'll have a specific goal, both long and short term, that they want you to get to and they will have a multiplicity of approaches; if one approach doesn't work, they'll go at it from another direction. They'll be using concrete exercise to develop specific skill sets, and overall be trying to give you a firm grounding in musical fundamentals so that you can develop in ANY direction you want; not trying to teach you a specific way to play.

Take scales - for some teachers scale work is vocabulary; here play this and you can use it on this chord. But scale work is about working on the physical approach to the instrument -fingering, position shifts, balancing either two or three plucking fingers or pick so that you control the emphasis given notes and phrases. Same with work on arpeggios, ear training, improvisational exercises, there are levels to the work. In the ARTICLES section here, there's an article by my teacher, Joe Solomon. I started studying with him about twelve years ago after I had been playing professionally for about 28 years, 10 of those in NYC. It will probably come up if you search JOE SOLOMON on this site.

[N.F.A.]

Well said Ed. That is exactly why I mentioned learning styles. Ideally varying teaching methods covers all the learning styles, but sadly, good musicians are not always good teachers. (and vice versa) Therefore, I also think it's important to know how to cover those learning style bases on your own. Thanks for mentioning Joe Solomon. I will go check out his article.

[Paul4703]

Hi,

The reason I'm asking is that I've had bad experiences previously with learning the classical guitar. I stuck with two teachers for over two years and was on the verge of giving up because I had made little progress. Then a third teacher took me on and I learned more in 3 months than I had previously. He didn't take into account any of my preferences but had his own way of doing things that I later learned were based on sound principles of mastering the instrument. He had learned this approach from his own guitar teacher.

I know little of bass playing and want to make sure that I'm getting appropriate tuition by learning from someone who has the right approach.

Cheers,

Paul.

[N.F.A.]

I defer to Ed Fuqua's wisdom here. My contribution to this thread, as a real life school teacher, is how to teach and learn, not the actual subject of bass itself. I am self taught. Aiming to rectify that. So, I will be learning right along with you Paul.

[basmartin]

Originally Posted by N.F.A.

Oh sorry, I didn't take the test. Well if nothing else the questions themselves give you some insight in to different ways to learn. Keep googling. It's an important and often overlooked part of learning.

It´s cool!

Yeah, I agree. It´s something I have to get better at. I have a couple of private students when I´m not busy giging, and I have to admit that I indeed have overlooked that part. So, thanks for bringing it up to my notice!

[N.F.A.]

You are welcome. It says good things about you that you are willing to look at yourself and improve if necessary. Really effective teachers are hard to find in the music world, in my experience.

[Paul4703]

Hi,

Managed to get some info from a professional piano teacher who gave me this:

The teacher should firstly evaluate the pupil, what they have done, what they know and what their goals are.

The physical side of playing has to be addressed immediately, how the body sits with the instrument and how the hands move. The student should be monitored as each lesson progresses and encouraged to relax muscles whenever necessary.

The teacher should frequently demonstrate correct hand movement and get the pupil to imitate this in a relaxed fashion.

Information given to the student is quickly forgotten. Any new facts should be repeated at least once during a lesson.

The lesson itself should be set out in distinct parts, e.g. theory, exercises, repertoire etc. so that the pupil has an all round learning experience which forms a comfortable routine. They should be encouraged to keep to this routine when they practice at home.

Every lesson should end with a review of that lesson.

A record of the students progress should be kept and previous material reviewed over time.

The material given to the student to work on at home should address all aspects of playing for their level of ability. The amount and difficulty of this should be varied in accordance with their progress.

The teachers overall experience should not just be that of instructor and learner, but rather a shared journey of discovery. A good teacher is one who learns as much as their pupil.

[Rickett Customs]

^^^^^ Agree with this. Also, If you teacher asks "What would you like to do today?"....... Run Away!

[Rav]

If you let people here know what city/state/country etc you live in, I'm sure someone can recommend a first class teacher in your area.

I know 2 absolutely fantastic bass instructors in the Dallas, TX area I could steer you to if you live in the Metroplex.

Use talkbass for what it is meant to be used for and leverage the networking potential and experience of people here to hook you up.

-Rav

[ajken]

Rav,

Who are the bass intructors you know in Dallas? I'm a noob and this info would be quite useful to me.

ak

[electracoyote]

I'm a teacher (bass, guitar, mandolin, ukulele) with 25 students. I retain students 3 years on average. Not to pat myself on the back, but I'm always afraid my students will become bored. And let's face it; alot of the more academic things we want to teach our students have tremendous boredom potential.

I would hope your teacher meets you where you are, assesses your strengths and weaknesses, takes advantage of practical application opportunities, and above all, makes it fun and interesting.

You got into music because you wanted the pleasure and satisfaction of developing a skill. If you can't see yourself develop or progress, it starts to get stale quick.

I like to pull our noses out of the book at least briefly every lesson, and do something a bit more intuitive, using our ears and instincts. I know many teachers on this forum think TAB is the greatest sin to music ever, but, in the beginning, I can get a student playing a song faster with TAB than standard notation and technical concepts, many of which will take months to grasp. And that real-world practical application of learning and playing a song, even a simple song, quickly and efficiently, can be extremely motivating.

Make no mistake, we keep our noses in the book quite a bit. I insist my students younger than 17 learn formal music concepts and sight reading skills. But your teacher has to keep it fun and keep you motivated to the extent he/she is able.

You're responsible for the rest.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Paul4703

Hi,

Managed to get some info from a professional piano teacher who gave me this:

The teacher should firstly evaluate the pupil, what they have done, what they know and what their goals are.

The physical side of playing has to be addressed immediately, how the body sits with the instrument and how the hands move. The student should be monitored as each lesson progresses and encouraged to relax muscles whenever necessary.

The teacher should frequently demonstrate correct hand movement and get the pupil to imitate this in a relaxed fashion.

.....

I think this is far more what I would expect than your first post - so that kind of stuff can be got from books, online etc.

But I would expect a teacher to look at how I am playing and point out weaknesses and areas for improvement, based on what they hear/see - not a syllabus from a book..?

Then to show how they would go about playing or talk about this...?

[Rav]

Originally Posted by ajken

Rav,

Who are the bass instructors you know in Dallas? I'm a noob and this info would be quite useful to me.

ak

Phil McNeese - Garland, TX - 972-686-2263
Peter Champagne - Plano,TX - 214-597-3963

Peter was originally a student of Phil. I know Phil personally and Peter by reputation only but I know for a fact both of them are stellar bass instructors.

These are the types of instructors that really give you a fundamental instruction to play anything in any style and be a lifelong pro bassist and not your run of the mill GC recommended hacks that just teach you a couple of songs and collect your money.

I think Peter is a TB user with an acct of the same name. Phil is more old school and you have to call him to get a hold of him.

additional:
Peter, If you read this I hope you don't mind the plug of your services. I know a lot of the same people you do and as I'm writing this I'm not sure why we have never met. I guess that just how things work sometimes.

-Rav

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by N.F.A.

...but sadly, good musicians are not always good teachers. (and vice versa)

I agree 100% with your main point here about not all good musicians making good teachers. But as for the converse, I honestly don't think you'll find a good music teacher that isn't a good musician themselves.

I train teachers (of science) for a living. When I ask people what makes a good teacher, I get all sorts of answers, and it's surprising and disappointing to me how infrequently "knowing your stuff inside out" gets mentioned. As someone who has to assess teachers' competence before they get to work, I can honestly say the importance of this aspect is often seriously underestimated.

[OmegaBass16]

Anybody can recommend bass instructors in Indianapolis, IN ? My past experience with
two so called "bass instructors" did not work out for me. They were more bass players
than instructors. After reading everyone's post here, I will be able to ask much better
questions in my search for the next instructor. I have made a list of questions to ask, but that "stellar bass instructor" you mention in your post Rav that can give me "fun-
damental instruction to play anything in any style and be a lifelong pro bassist ",that's
the bass instructor I'm after. It was suggested to me to call the music department at
some local high schools, universities in my search. When asking the few bass players
than I know they are self-taught with little or no music theory, but over the years of
playing have develop a damn good ear and impeccable timing. What are some direct,
straight to point questions that I should ask when first making phone contact that from
the answers would want me to make an appointment to take it to the next step? Thanks in advance for everyone's reply.

[ajken]

Thanks Rav. I'm pretty satisfied with my instructor right now, but it's always good to have a few other names in case something happens.