Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > General Instruction [BG]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

General Instruction [BG] General questions regarding bass playing, theory, and bass lessons.


Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 02-19-2007, 08:06 AM
H2ODog's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Roseville, CA
Supporting Member
How to use the Pentatonic scale?

Sign in to disble this ad
So i'm learnig the pentatonic scale in different positions on the neck. I now know the positions but how do you implement it to a song? As an example, if i'm trying to play with a song in the key of "A" i can play the pentatonic starting on the E string 5th fret but when the song changes chords say to "D" what do you do to stay within the proper notes?

Last edited by H2ODog : 02-19-2007 at 09:08 AM.
  #2  
Old 02-19-2007, 10:26 AM
[acct disabled - multiple aliases]
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Venice, CA
The is more than one Pentatonic scale. There is Major, Minor, and a couple common added chromatic notes. You should figure out five fingerings for each one. Once you have five fingerings you will know how to play the "D" pentatonic in the same position as the "A".
  #3  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:03 AM
H2ODog's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Roseville, CA
Supporting Member
Ok i think i understand what you are saying Steve. The fingering for the "D" has the same pattern, just one string over (A). So i could use that when the chord chnages to "D".
  #4  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:42 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Send a message via AIM to permadave
Quote:
Originally Posted by H2ODog View Post
So i'm learnig the pentatonic scale in different positions on the neck. I now know the positions but how do you implement it to a song? As an example, if i'm trying to play with a song in the key of "A" i can play the pentatonic starting on the E string 5th fret but when the song changes chords say to "D" what do you do to stay within the proper notes?
I am just learning about scales as well but I will try to explain how I do it. For the explanation, I'm assuming this is major pentatonic.

To play through that key change, you have to think of the various note function numbers, or scale tones, in relation to D instead of A. For example A is "1" when playing in the key of A and B is 2, etc . When in the key of D, D is 1 and E is 2, etc. You could keep playing in the same area of the neck when the key changes, you just have to think of how the notes in that area relate to the new key, D in this case. For example, A functions as "1" in the key of A but it functions as "5" in the key of D. So for that some 5th fret A on the E string, you have two different note functions, depending on what key you are in. In other words if you were playing that A when they key changed, that would be ok because its in both keys.

It's helpful to practice the scale in all keys, ie in this case, practice the scale in D in all positions and then you'll be able to see how the "boxes" on the neck for the key of A relate to the boxes for D. By boxes, I mean groupings of scale tones on the neck within a 4-5 fret range.

To practice the scale in D, start from the first note in the scale you come across on the lowest string. For 4 string, the E string.
In the case of D pentatonic, open E would be the first note you come across in the scale and it would be the 2nd note of that scale, or "2". So from that open E, go to F#(2nd fret E str), A(open), B(2nd A str), D (open), E (2nd D str), F#(4th D str), A (2nd G str), and B (4th G str). This progression would scale-tone wise equate to 2, 3, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 . That would be your first "box", or grouping of notes for D maj pentatonic.

Now you would look for the next scale tone up in D maj pent. on the E string, which would be F# or "3". This would be on the 2nd fret E string. Starting from here (3rd scale tone), you would play the scale, starting from 3561235, etc. moving up the strings from lowest to highest, not stretching more than 5 frets on any one string or playing more than 2-3 notes per string. For example, for this F# box, you would play F# as 2nd fret E string , then A as 5th fret E string, then B as 2nd fret A string, then D as 5th fret A string, then on to the D and G strings for the remainder. After you run the scale from the 2nd fret E string you would run the scale starting from A on the 5th fret E string, which would be the 5th scale tone, going 5612356, etc etc. Do this going all the way up the neck, starting from the E string notes that belong to the scale.

The trick to key changes is to keep going with the feel of the line you're playing so it doesn't sound like you're changing keys. Instead, you just adjust your mind and the scale "box" to correspond to the new key.

Hope this is not too confusing. I'm not that advanced myself so anyone else please correct me if I made any errors.
__________________
METAL CLUB Member #51 \m/ - Wick club member #92
http://www.myspace.com/sybariticmetal
  #5  
Old 02-21-2007, 06:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prince Georges County Maryland
Wonderful thread. My last bass teacher drilled the 5 pentatonic shapes on me, along with the 7 modal shapes. What confused me (and still does) is how he presented it as an abstract concept (which i suppose it is) and left it up to me, as to how i should use it (pentatonics) along with scales & arpeggios, chromatics. I'm terrible at trying to see the connection between things.

As well as he taught, i'm a slow learner, and tried to get me to understand them, pentatonics, it never clicked as to 'how to use these box shapes' along with how to use them over chord changes & soloing with pentatonics, all in my short 1/2 hour lesson. (couldn't afford no more than that, still can't)

I am thankful though, that each lesson i took from him (over a years worth) he allowed me to record them with my mini micro cassette tape recorder, so i pull them out from time to time & give them a listen.

For 2007, all i'm trying to work on is not note choices, but groove. Playing on the 2 & 4 of a measure, locking in with the kick on the 1 & 3.

This thread is very informative though and whatever any one else i'm all eyes. (& ears)
  #6  
Old 02-21-2007, 02:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Boston, Taxachusetts
Chords and scales are interrelated since chords are built from notes in a scale.

The D major pentatonic scale refers to a five note scale related to the key of D major. At the simplest level it can be used over pretty much any chord that exists in that key.

D major scale: D E F# G A B C#
D major pentatonic: D E F# A B

Triads in D major

Dmaj D F# A
Emin E G B
F#min F# A C#
Gmaj G B D
Amaj A C# E
Bmin B D F#
C#dim C# E G

OK what notes in those chords are NOT in the D major pentatonic: G, C# So you have at least two notes of each chord available except for the C#dim where you have only one (E).

So no matter what the chord is if the song is in D major you can solo using the major pentatonic and find notes that more or less fit. Some will sound better than others over certain chords, but your ears will quickly tune you in to what those are. You do not need to stay on the one pentatonic however; as chords change you can use other pentatonics. A simple example would be over a I-IV-V type progression in D you could use D major pentatonic over the I (D) and IV (G) and the A major pentatonic over the V (A).

This is an extreme simplification but may help you start to hear pentatonics in use.

Last edited by brianrost : 02-21-2007 at 02:42 PM.
  #7  
Old 02-21-2007, 03:23 PM
H2ODog's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Roseville, CA
Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianrost View Post
This is an extreme simplification but may help you start to hear pentatonics in use.
Maybe it is but it's what i needed to know. Will try that tonight on some music and see how i do. Thanks for taking the time, appreciate it.
  #8  
Old 02-21-2007, 04:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prince Georges County Maryland
Thank you Brianrost.
  #9  
Old 03-06-2007, 10:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fountain boy View Post
For 2007, all i'm trying to work on is not note choices, but groove. Playing on the 2 & 4 of a measure, locking in with the kick on the 1 & 3.
Absolutely - if you ain't got a groove, it doesn't matter what notes you play, and if you got the right groove, it also doesn't matter what notes you play!
  #10  
Old 03-06-2007, 05:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMason View Post
Absolutely - if you ain't got a groove, it doesn't matter what notes you play, and if you got the right groove, it also doesn't matter what notes you play!
I'm a very new bass player and I think what you say is kinda true, sure you could play every note "wrong" with the right timing and it would sound bad but if you play most of the "right" notes with the right timing then you are a bass player!

The really good players play all the "right" notes at exactly the right time and that is what makes them very good players.

Am I wrong in this assessment?
  #11  
Old 03-06-2007, 07:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prince Georges County Maryland
I make it a point, if ever im in a music store and i hear a bassist making the bass their playing growl out of this world, to humble myself down and go and watch his hand position and i find that 9 x's out've 10, it's a pentatonic shape they are playing through.

The one i always see is where a person will play an open E then G A C D E G A C D E. They'll play that ascending and then they somehow take it backwards. That's 3 different pentatonic shapes their playing through, when i look at that pattern.

It's hard to explain, i can get it going forward but how to keep it going is where i get lost.
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:51 PM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.