How to view chords ? In relition to key or own entity.

[ThomasG]

I understand it is best to know a chord and its qualitys standing on its own, but also related to a key. To me a key is a neighborhood and the chord is the house within that neighborhood. I tend to relate a chord to a key to remember how many sharps/flats etc. For example Bb7 I think either 2 or 6 chord in relation to the key of Ab or Db. To all you great bassists that have been playing awhile, how do you think of a chord ? It makes sense just to know the chord without needing to relate it to a key center. Feedback my fellow bassists.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

I understand it is best to know a chord and its qualitys standing on its own, but also related to a key. To me a key is a neighborhood and the chord is the house within that neighborhood. I tend to relate a chord to a key to remember how many sharps/flats etc. For example Bb7 I think either 2 or 6 chord in relation to the key of Ab or Db.

I'm guessing you meant Bbm7.

To all you great bassists that have been playing awhile, how do you think of a chord ? It makes sense just to know the chord without needing to relate it to a key center. Feedback my fellow bassists.

I probably don't fall into the "great bassists" category, but I'll share my take on it.

I always think of the chord and it's associated mode and where the harmony is going next, all at the same time.

If you're playing in a major key and you use the approach I think you're suggesting, you would be treating each m7 chord exactly the same as the other. This will obviously work as long as you're only playing chord tones, but the moment you try adding passing notes, you're in danger of dropping clangers.

If you're playing in C major and you're on Dm7 and want to add a few scale tones as passing notes you'd be using:

major 2nd: E
perfect 4th: G
major 6th: B

If you were to use the same approach on Am7, you'd hit a problem with that major 6th, which would give you an F#.

It'd be worse still on Em7, where the major 2nd and major 6th would have you playing F# and C#.

[Freddels]

Bb7 would be the V7 in Eb major. If Bb-7 then it could be the ii in Ab or the iii in Gb or the vi in Db.

I tend to think both key and chord. Learn all the upper extensions for the chords. Bb-7 Bb Db F Ab C Eb G Bb (if iii-7 then Gb instead of G and Cb instead of C or if it's vi-7 you'll have the Gb and C nat).

Now with the Bb-7 if you start on the 3rd of the chord you have a DbMaj7. Start on 5th, you have F-7. Etc.

[DocBop]

I think chords do get treated as an entity of their own. Sometime the music deems it, model tunes or long jams on a static chord. Also when having to solo on a song you haven't played before, the first time thru the change you are probably looking at chord quality and using arpeggios and common default scale choices.

Then when you worked on a tune (or soloing over multiple choruses) you do start looking at the neighboring chords and see how a chord is functioning. From there can either use a "correct" scale or choose scale for the colors you want or start applying chord subsitutes.

Such as your Bb7 you said could be a II chord. That could be a number of things. Wouldn't be a II in major scale, but a common substitution of turning minors into dominants. Could be V of V. An example of need to see surrounding chords to determine its function. So for me the safe scale choice is Lydian b7 it works on all dominant functioning and non-functioning. If it goes the Eb7 then it is functioning and I could start considering some altered dominant sounds. When you start looking at tunes then analysis can take some time. Minor for dominant, parallel keys, modal interchange, chord subsitution, back-cycling, reharmonization and on and on. It can be hard to determine key center or start seeing changing key centers and all that influences scale choice.

So it boils down to a matter of time available. No time then have to use default scale choices, arpeggios, and ears. The more time available then chord function can be determined and more informed scale selection can be made. More time and listening to melody and style factor in and more personal choice comes into play. At least that is how I see it.

[Liko]

For me, I generally think of chords in terms of the key's natural progression wherever possible, using the I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-<vii> (major) and i-<ii>-III-iv-v-VI-VII (minor) systems. For instance, in the key of G major, the chords G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, and F#dim (and their variations such as iii(7)) can all be referenced by their scale degree.

These scale degree notations describe the chord progression of a song very easily, and allow for quick and easy transposition. However, they start breaking down when you start throwing "non-natural" chords into the progression. It may not be as clear why you're throwing II(7) into an otherwise normal major progression (unless, as above, you knew that II is the V of V, or the dominant substitution for a minor chord). You may also have to think about how to construct that chord (in the key of G, instead of the Amin which is the 2-4-6 of the key, it would be A7 which is the 2-aug4-6-8 of the key, and that aug4 (C#) will definitely not sound like part of the key). However, you could look at A7 and see that three of four notes (E-G-B) are in the key. You could then see that A7 resolves to Emin. In the general case, II(7) resolves to vi, but that's harder to demonstrate.