How would you rate learning Donna Lee by Jaco P.

Justbleazy · #1 10-18-2011, 12:35 PM

This will be my real first song I've learned by reading note notation and while I can read the notes and play some of the notes, its a really long piece without any repetition.

Is Donna Lee a really difficult song or do I need to step my reading skills up?

Yeah, I can only play the first 0:11 of the song lol!

Essen · #2 10-18-2011, 12:44 PM

IMO, it requires more playing technique than it does reading skills to play Jaco.
I had a bass teacher who had me play a lot of Jaco-songs, and practicing to play is what took the most time.

**FunkyMcNasty** · #3 10-18-2011, 12:48 PM

It's a tough song to get 100%. Try slowing it down and taking it one line at a time. Do you have Amazing Slow Downer? It would help on fast Jaco stuff IMO.

EscapeNote · #4 10-18-2011, 01:19 PM

I know it seems long right now but once you've made it through memorizing the entire head you'll start to see it in a different way.

I suggest that you also check out the original Charlie Parker version(s) and a few others. An iTunes search will give you lots of choices insofar as hearing how others have interpreted the song. In my own experience, doing so has given me valuable added perspective on the Jaco version and enriched my own practicing of it.

Attached is a transcription (head only) I did from the original C Parker version, dropped down into bass clef. Been awhile since I did the transcription but, as I recall, there are a few interesting, small differences between this and the Jaco version. Have also attached the concert, treble clef version

Good luck!

skwee · #5 10-18-2011, 01:20 PM

I'd learn to play a conventional bass line over the original tune first like any other fake chart. Then, start to play it as a soloist.

cnltb · #6 10-18-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justbleazy

This will be my real first song I've learned by reading note notation and while I can read the notes and play some of the notes, its a really long piece without any repetition.

Is Donna Lee a really difficult song or do I need to step my reading skills up?

Yeah, I can only play the first 0:11 of the song lol!

It's not easy (especially if you want to do it real well which you do, right?) and it's not by Jaco P.
It's by Miles Davis.

A key is to not rush yourself.
be thorough and enjoy!

**jmattbassplaya** · #7 10-18-2011, 01:39 PM

It's honestly not too terribly hard of a song to play, but it does take time and dedication to learn it right. That said, I would NOT choose that as my first song to learn how to read to. You'll get tired and bored with it pretty quickly if you're not already playing at that level.

My advice is to go to a music store and check out a few music books that are currently at your level or slightly above it. With these books you'll want to go through them as sight reading practice pieces. This will show you your weaknesses as a reader.

At the same time, also pick up a book or two that's above your level by a good bit. With these books you'll want to tackle songs one at a time and slowly work your way through them. Keep doing this until you get to a book that would hold a tune like Donna Lee. You'll benefit more and progress much faster by taking this approach.

**Freddels** · #8 10-18-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnltb

It's not easy (especially if you want to do it real well which you do, right?) and it's not by Jaco P.
It's by Miles Davis.

A key is to not rush yourself.
be thorough and enjoy!

I thought it was a contrafact written by Charlie Parker.

hangman · #9 10-18-2011, 01:52 PM

Miles Davis wrote Donna Lee, but it was first recorded by the CP Quintet in 1947 (with Miles).

longfinger · #10 10-18-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddels

I thought it was a contrafact written by Charlie Parker.

I thought so too, then I checked online and found this...

Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals (Donna Lee)

I'm not sure who edited that page and if they've done the real research needed to find out the truth. (not a google search like me, but real research.) Odd, I've heard of tunes being inappropriately attributed to Miles Davis, but not the other way around. I'm happy to learn something new everyday.

**funkybass4ever** · #11 10-18-2011, 02:08 PM

If I were new to notation I certainly would not begin testing my reading skills on Jaco's version of anything! I learned how to read by playing trombone with method books and when I decided to learn bass I was already familiar with the notes but not the fretboard. I used method books to bridge the gap.

If you are relying on slowdown devices and playing by ear they can help you get through a tune also but the best way I have found to get consistently better is to start with pieces you can easily master and learn. Too many players want to cut corners and tackle more well known songs in order to impress people- Youtube is full of them.
I'm all for pushing the comort zone but it will serve your playing and practicing more to backtrack a little first with some great method books IMHO.

cnltb · #12 10-18-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hangman

Miles Davis wrote Donna Lee, but it was first recorded by the CP Quintet in 1947 (with Miles).

Beat me to it.

theretheyare · #13 10-18-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscapeNote

An iTunes search will give you lots of choices insofar as hearing how others have interpreted the song.

+1 to that. You can also try a streaming service such as Grooveshark - at least you'll get to hear the ones you might like in full first before you decide to buy them elsewhere.

EscapeNote · #14 10-18-2011, 02:36 PM

One more reason why I really appreciate TalkBass! All this time I was unaware that Miles had actually penned the tune. I followed the link posted by longfinger and that really does seem to be a credible article. Based on that, I have just now removed my previous transcription (my first post in this thread) and uploaded a revised version showing the corrected authorship.

Thanks TB'ers!

cnltb · #15 10-18-2011, 03:07 PM

The chords were borrowed from "Back home in indiana" if I'm not mistaken which I very well may be.

Here some linkage...
Louis Armstrong plays "Back Home Again In Indiana " - YouTube

Justbleazy · #16 10-18-2011, 03:10 PM

My sight reading is below average at best but Jaco's version of Donna Lee is in Ab meaning that every B,E,A,D is flat unless its noted as a natural. I can get the feel down which is no problem, its the 4-5 pages of music that is overwhelming.

I knew this was going to be a month long process which is fine. I just wanted to see how others have approached this song.

Also, when I master this song, will I be able to handle other complex songs as well?

EscapeNote · #17 10-18-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justbleazy

My sight reading is below average at best but Jaco's version of Donna Lee is in Ab meaning that every B,E,A,D is flat unless its noted as a natural. I can get the feel down which is no problem, its the 4-5 pages of music that is overwhelming.

Donna Lee, like many of the best jazz songs, doesn't stay in one key. Yes, the key sig is Ab; that's where it starts and where it ends. But it travels to many other places in between!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justbleazy

Also, when I master this song, will I be able to handle other complex songs as well?

Short answer: No.

More helpful answer (I hope): You are beginning an amazing process. Learning Donna Lee is an ambitious undertaking and I tip my hat to you for taking on the challenge. But I think that you'll be short-changing yourself if you do it completely 'by rote' and don't couple this effort with some basic education in jazz theory.

There are a lot of YouTube vids of people playing this song poorly or just plain wrong and you can usually tell within the first few bars whether they're drawing from the deep well of jazz understanding or whether they've learned it by rote. I don't want to come off as a 'jazz snob' here - I came into jazz through the back door and will always be a rocker at heart - but I paid my dues on this and I feel confident in saying that just learning to finger the notes in the right sequence will only get you superficial results. You could learn every note of Jaco's solo on this tune and I'm sure you'd be a better player for it in many ways, however if you make time and a commitment to learning even the basics of the theory behind the music - like taking some jazz improv classes at a community college - then learning those lines will open up a whole new landscape for you. It will blow your mind.

Like some others who've posted in this thread today, I would suggest you approach in stages. Learn to play bass lines under the song (like skwee suggested), learn to play the melody (as you've started doing). Get some jazz theory lessons, analyze the chord changes and the way the tune moves through different keys and let yourself have that 'lightbulb moment' of understanding the process of navigating from one key/scale to another key/scale. Then, when you start learning the stuff that Jaco improvised in the solo section you'll hear way more than you otherwise would have. It will be more than 'just notes'...

Justbleazy · #18 10-19-2011, 08:43 PM

Thanks for the replies. I do feel pumped to learn Donna Lee and I'm going to stick with it. I'm aiming for no longer than a month to learn how to play it and I'm a perfectionist so I'll definately make sure it's on point once I learn it. I'll post up a video once I get down packed.

Mayers · #19 10-20-2011, 09:20 AM

I didn't conquert that incredible jazz standart in one month. Yeah I knew the head by heart after few weeks but it as more to it than that. Learning to do a walking bass on it like some great double bass player or just to learn the bebop language to solo over it is a life long process.

I learned it with a Real Book. Reading the original is better than learning a cover of it.

HaVIC5 · #20 10-20-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscapeNote

One more reason why I really appreciate TalkBass! All this time I was unaware that Miles had actually penned the tune. I followed the link posted by longfinger and that really does seem to be a credible article. Based on that, I have just now removed my previous transcription (my first post in this thread) and uploaded a revised version showing the corrected authorship.

Thanks TB'ers!

As interesting as it might be to hear that Miles penned Donna Lee, in all likelihood, that claim is bull. All sources perpetuating that claim stem originally from a quotation in Miles' "Autobiography," which has a lot of questionable claims in it. The book itself in fact was not written by Miles, rather, it was a long series of interviews transcribed by Quincy Trope, rearranged into a book narrative, and then cross-referenced with other biographies of Miles. It's basically Miles saying, "yeah, I wrote Donna Lee," the same way he said, "yeah, I wrote Blue in Green," (Bill Evans) or "yeah, I wrote Footprints," (Wayne Shorter). It's just that at the time he played on it, he was in Parker's band, and couldn't claim credit for it at the time.

Besides this, however, musically Donna Lee doesn't even remotely resemble any other Miles melody, and has the indelible melodic stamp of Charlie Parker. Miles rarely dabbled in contrafacts, and when he did, they certainly weren't the notey, slinky 8th note lines of bebop. One tip that suggests that it was Parker is the fact that the first note of the melody is displaced two beats, and the entire first phrase is pushed back harmonically, which is a device he used in his solos. The phrase links up with the harmony very "squarely" when you start it on beat 1 (the non-diatonic A natural of the F7 would then come on beat 1 of bar 2), but it's displaced to add interest, something Parker often did, and doesn't share any particular affiliation with Miles.

Miles was a great musician. But also a liar.