I don't understand the concept of "modes" at all. Can someone please help?

[Invisible_Kid]

Yeah, I know they're like Mixolydian and Dorian or whatever, but I honestly don't understand them at all. Could someone give a newbie a basic explanation of what modes are, and how to shift from a regular scale to a mode of the scale?

[Billnc]

Study chords and harmony first. Modes may be useful for modal music (staying in one 'mode') but are not that useful for playing through changes IMHO. I do both. I also play with a really good guitarist and when he says modal, I still don't have to stay in that particular mode the tune is in. What I have to know is how everything is related to the root while he is playing.

Modes are touted as 'do this here' yet we never run D dorian to G mixolydian to C ionian, You would lead to different chord tone in those changes and the options and melodic devices there are numerous and easy to learn. They also contain notes outside the major scale.

[LM Bass]

I agree with Billnc, and I teach jazz improv. You really want to get comfortable with the major scale and the triads within it, in every key, first. Make sure you can name all the notes of the scale (before you play them), also learn the solfege (do re mi) syllables and practise singing the intervals. Can you outline the I IV V triads in every key, with inversions? That's worth working on first.

When you do learn modes, make sure you practise them against the sound of the chord -use a sequencer or a keyboard, and learn the mode in the context of the sound of the chord. Modes are really easy to learn, and not the scary theory secret many beginners think they are. The information is all over the web, so it's easy to get to it when you want to. Google found this for me: http://tamingthesaxophone.com/jazz-modes.html


Have fun!
Laurence

[Russell L]

Well, if they say the song is Lydian, for instance, you can expect the II-chord to always be minor. Stuff like that. But, to make it simple...

Let's say we're ascending. There are only 12 notes, then comes the octave (starting over again, only higher). Ok, of the 12, choose 7. Look on the piano and see C-B. That's CDEFGAB, 1234567. Then, note that there are no black notes between E and F, and between B and C. That is, it is a whole-step between all the notes from one to the next, except in those two places, in which case it is only a hal-step.

C-C on the white keys is the C Major Scale. It is also the Ionian Mode. It has its half-steps between 3 and 4 (E-F) and between 7and 8 (B-C, 7 and 1 again). The other modes only change where those two half-steps occur within each mode. e.g.-D to D on the white keys is the Dorian mode. It's half-steps occur between 2 and 3 (E-F) and between 6 and 7 (B-C).

Using the major scale formula above we can say how the others vary from it. For instance, Dorian uses a b3 and b7, whereas both are major in the major scale (that is, unaltered from their position). On the white keys, here are all of them:

C-C Ionian mode, major scale, half-steps = 3-4, 7-8.
D_D Dorian mode, b3 b7, half-steps = 2-3, 6-7.
E-E Phrygian mode, b2 b3 b7, half-steps = 1-2, 5-6.
F-F Lydian mode, #4, half-steps = 4-5, 7-8.
G-G Mixolydian mode, b7, half-steps = 3-4, 6-7.
A-A Aoelian mode, b3 b6 b7, half-steps = 4-5, 7-8.
B-B Locrian mode, b2 b3 b5 b7, half-steps = 1-2, 4-5.

To think of modal harmony, refer back to what you know about how chords are formed diatonically (using only the notes of the scale). In the key of C, the I, IV and V-chords are major, ii, iii, and vi are minor, vii is diminished (b3 b5). That is found by stacking 3rds (CEG, DFA, EGB, etc.). You can easily see on the keyboard that if you do the same thing beginning on, say D as "1", that the nature of the chords changes. For instance, in this case, the Dorian mode, the V-chord is now minor (Am).

Make sure you understand intervals and the major scale first, and how triads are built, diatonically. Playing-wise, using modes can require some thinking. I don't think too much about it, though when playing a song. I use modes more to describe things. Stuff like how rock music is often Mixolyduan because it produces a major Vii- chord.

Ionian-- I ii iii IV V vi vii°
Dorian-- i ii III IV v vi° VII
Phrygian-- i II III iv v° VI vii
Lydian-- I II iii iv° V vi vii
Mixolydian-I ii iii° IV v vi VII
Aeolian-- i ii° III iv v VI VII
Locrian-- i° II iii iv V VI vii

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by Russell L

Well, if they say the song is Lydian, for instance, you can expect the II-chord to always be minor. Stuff like that. But, to make it simple...

Actually, that's not the way modal harmony works. But even if it were, the II chord in a lydian harmony would be dominant. (C lydian has an F#, so the II chord would be D, F#, A C) However, modal harmony doesn't work like diatonic harmony.

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes modal harmony must be done correctly for modes to produce their mood. We do modes for their mood, of course that is my opinion. You might want to check this out before going any deeper. http://www.riddleworks.com/modalharm.html

Modes are moods of the major scale. I know of two ways of producing modes. One is called relative modes and the other is called parallel modes or pitch axis. In relative modes the notes stay the same and the key changes. In parallel modes the notes change and the key stays the same. Relative is easy to teach and this is the one you normally run into. Parallel is a little harder to grasp, however, I find it very easy to use. Here are the two in a nut shell:

Relative modes:
C Ionian C D E F G A B
D Dorian...D E F G A B C
E Phrygian...E F G A B C D
etc. etc.

Parallel modes:
Major modes
C Ionian C D E F G A B
C Lydian C D E F# G A B
C Mixolydian C D E F G A Bb
Notice the major modes use the major scale as home base and then change one note to get the modal mood. Lydian sharps the 4th and Mixolydian flats the 7th. I find that easy to use in a song. Course the major scale box pattern rules my bass playing. I'm not trying to convert you one way or the other just outlining the two types of modes.

Minor modes
C Aeolian C D Eb F G Ab Bb Notice this is the natural minor scale. Minor modes use the natural minor scale as home base. Then change one note.....
C Dorian C D Eb F G A Bb the b6 is sharped to a natural 6.
C Phrygian C Db Eb F G Ab Bb the 2 is flatted
C Locrian C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb here the 2 and the 5 are flatted.

Ionian gives an attractive up beat mood. Notice it is the major scale. The major scale also gives an up beat attractive mood. If that is the mood you want just use the major scale - and the normal chord progression you would use with a major scale.

Lydian gives a day dreamy mood. If that is what you want take the major scale and sharp the 4th. But, to get that mood you will need to use a modal vamp of the tonic chord and then a chord that contains a #4th.

Mixolydian gives a Latin or Blues mood. If that is what you want take the major scale and flat the 7th. But, to get that mood you will need to use a modal vamp of the tonic chord and then one of the chords that contain a b7.

Aeolian gives a sad startled mood. If that is what you want just use the natural minor scale and the normal chord progression you would be using with a minor scale.

Dorian gives an attractive jazz mood. If that is what you want use the natural minor scale and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6 and use a modal vamp of the tonic chord and a chord that contains a natural 6.

Phrygian gives an exotic Spanish mood. Yes use a modal vamp with it of the tonic chord and one that contains the b2.

Modes are used to produce a modal mood. Modal music is different than tonal music so our chord progressions need to take this into account.

Modes are very simple, however, we enjoy making them complicated. For example how many moods will a song have? One for the verses and then perhaps one more in the chorus. Pick a mood and use that. Another thing to think about. Normally the vocalist will set the mood, but, when the lead is passed to us we should continue that mood in our lead break. We can if we play the mode that produces that mood - if - big if, the rest of the band changes from the chord progression to a modal vamp - for us, I bet they were using a normal chord progression for the vocalist, i.e. I IV V or i iv v. If they do not change to the vamp your efforts to sustain that mood are waisted. Course you can always play the tune for your lead break.

Now newbie bassists IMHO you have more than enough to do right now than getting into modes. When you are getting lead breaks then modes can and should enter your life.

Have fun.

[dougjwray]

Great info so far.
Learning the modes on the keyboard is so much easier than on a stringed instrument, because, with the black and white keys, the patterns are easier to visualize.
But on bass I would begin by playing one collection of notes (like C D E F G A B C) then do it six more times, beginning on the "next" note each time (D to D, E to E, etc.). That will give you all of the different patterns. Once you get them down, you can move them around anywhere, without having to relate them to the "home" scale. So, you can practice quizzing yourself by playing, say, Eb Dorian to G Lydian to B Ionian to F# Mixolydian, or whatever.
As Malcolm said, the whole idea is to create different moods, and perhaps to go "outside" and back with some kind of plan.

[Luff]

The easiest way to get used to the sounds of the different modes is, in my opinion, pedal point improvisation. Play an open string (or loop a note) and improvise over it using the different modes. Like starting out in E Lydian, then switching over to E dorian or mixolydian or whatever else you want to try out. Works wonders for exotic scales/modes as well.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Invisible_Kid

Yeah, I know they're like Mixolydian and Dorian or whatever, but I honestly don't understand them at all. Could someone give a newbie a basic explanation of what modes are, and how to shift from a regular scale to a mode of the scale?

Think of chords instead of scales.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by Pacman

Actually, that's not the way modal harmony works. But even if it were, the II chord in a lydian harmony would be dominant. (C lydian has an F#, so the II chord would be D, F#, A C) However, modal harmony doesn't work like diatonic harmony.

do tell......can you recommend a good source to read up on that.....

[MalcolmAmos]

C Lydian = C D E F# G A B
Now stack 3rds.
C = C E G B
D = D F# A C now compare that to the D major scale =
D E F# G A B C# and we get the spelling of 1-3-5-b7 and that is the spelling of a major dominant chord.

Just take the mode notes then stack 3rds compare that to the parent scale to get the spelling and the 3 and 7 pretty well tell you what you have.

[Luff]

You don't have to stack in thirds in modal harmony. There's plenty over other interesting things you could do. You could, for example, have something constant underneath and focus on harmonizing the melody in various ways.

Also, I would be careful about making the II of the lydian mode dominant. Our ears are accustomed to dominant chords resolving as a V-I, which would break up the vamp.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by Luff

You don't have to stack in thirds in modal harmony. There's plenty over other interesting things you could do. You could, for example, have something constant underneath and focus on harmonizing the melody in various ways.

Also, I would be careful about making the II of the lydian mode dominant. Our ears are accustomed to dominant chords resolving as a V-I, which would break up the vamp.

Quartal harmony, and inversions of those chords over a pedal can be very cool for modal stuff.

[BluesMan1]

What the heck are modes and why are they important?

Learning modes for soloing

Modes

Theory, best place to start?

I need basic music theory help...

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Luff

You don't have to stack in thirds in modal harmony. There's plenty over other interesting things you could do. You could, for example, have something constant underneath and focus on harmonizing the melody in various ways.

Also, I would be careful about making the II of the lydian mode dominant. Our ears are accustomed to dominant chords resolving as a V-I, which would break up the vamp.

That's correct, the tonic and the chord with the characteristic note will sustain the mood, thus give you the harmony you are looking for. Question now becomes which chord will have a F# in it's makup. How about D major. Lydian is a major mode. As will Bm. There normally will be three of them. Third one's on you.

[lucas vigor]

I have played bass for 1000 years now. I have never learned the modes.

The simplest way it was explained for me was just like starting a scale on a different note of the original scale, like

C D E F G A B C

D E F G A B C D

E F G A B C D E

F G A B C D E F

G A B C D E F G

A B C D E F G A

B C D E F G A B



Basically, those are the important ones to learn. Can't tell you what they are called but who really cares? Just learn all major and minor scales in every key, with every variations of fingerings, and then learn all chords as arpeggios, in every key and with variations of the fingerings...and you will have everything you need to play most bass parts.

[PhiDeck]

Originally Posted by Invisible_Kid

Yeah, I know they're like Mixolydian and Dorian or whatever, but I honestly don't understand them at all. Could someone give a newbie a basic explanation of what modes are, and how to shift from a regular scale to a mode of the scale?

Modes are seven diatonic scales whose two semi-tone intervals are in differing positions relative to the root.

In western music, the entire 12-tone chromatic scale is rarely used within a single composition. Instead, each composition uses a subset thereof.
When only five notes are used it's called a pentatonic scale.
When seven notes are used it's called a heptatonic scale.

The heptatonic scale has five whole-tone intervals and two semi-tone intervals. There is a subset of heptatonic scales wherein the two semi-tone intervals are maximally separated from each other. That is called a diatonic scale. See the white keys on a piano for reference.

In diatonic scales, the two semi-tone intervals can be located at seven different positions relative to the root, which yields the seven modes:

Ionian T-T-s-T-T-T-s ("Major Scale")
Dorian T-s-T-T-T-s-T
Phrygian s-T-T-T-s-T-T
Lydian T-T-T-s-T-T-s
Mixolydian T-T-s-T-T-s-T
Aeolian T-s-T-T-s-T-T ("Minor Scale")
Locrian s-T-T-s-T-T-T

Note that some non-diatonic scales also have modes. eg. the rotations of the melodic minor scale (TsTTTTs)

[thudfromafar]

modes as just another sound color. "major" and "minor" are modes btw.
in a technical sense, a mode is basically a certain selection of intervals to make up a scale.

[slybass3000]

I associate modes with harmonic functions of chords in a key center for proper diatonic sound.

So if you have a chord progression like this:

C---Amin7---Dmin7---G7---Emin7---F---Dmin7---G7---C

I know that all the chords are related to the C Major scale and I play the proper modes especially on the xmin7 chords AND the 2 major chords, which is where that most untrained musicians make their mistakes by playing the wrong notes outside of the key.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by Billnc

Study chords and harmony first. Modes may be useful for modal music (staying in one 'mode') but are not that useful for playing through changes IMHO. I do both. I also play with a really good guitarist and when he says modal, I still don't have to stay in that particular mode the tune is in. What I have to know is how everything is related to the root while he is playing.

Modes are touted as 'do this here' yet we never run D dorian to G mixolydian to C ionian, You would lead to different chord tone in those changes and the options and melodic devices there are numerous and easy to learn. They also contain notes outside the major scale.

Whoah!!! Modes have EVERYTHING to do with playing through the changes! It's basically knowing how to play through the changes of whatever key your in, starting from anywhere...for example, if your playing in G, but from the, say Em, you still want to play through the G changes, but starting from Em...been so long since I studied theory that I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do remember that much!