" I practice my chops without an instrument"

[ameshokostreet]

"most of the time i practise my chops without the instruments" - jaco

heard this on his instructional video. so can it be done? or is it just jaco?

[Kindofblue]

I believe so. I think the players who get good from not just practicing __ hours a day. I think they get it from practicing in nice intervals and putting more focus on certain areas and just live sort of a musicical life. Always thinking about music, or jamming, writing, transcribing etc thats why I think it got to the point were they just builed up their technique and had a good sense of there lines,steady rythmic sense so that they ended up being able to think away from there instrument.

[OliverH]

At some point you reach a stage where it isn't about what your body can physically do, but the limitations of your musical knowledge and creativity. If you can think up a new musical idea and play it immediately without having to practice it, you don't need the extra hours of practice, you just need the creativity.

Gee I'd love to be at that level.

[ameshokostreet]

For me i am at school most of the time and i'm thinking about things i can do away from instrument and still get some form of "practice".

[DocBop]

Two things

1 When your ears and knowledge of music get to a certain stage you don't need an instrument you hear it all in your head. The example most know is Beethoven writing his 9th symphony after he had gone deaf. Actually pro composers most write without an instrument and then play things now and then as a check.

2. There are hand exercises for strength and independence for most instruments that don't involve an instrument. A piano player showed me some independence exercises so I have always tried to make up similar exercises to do when driving or at work. Some for strength, some independence, and others for widening my finger span.

[Dudaronamous]

I remember reading an interview with him in the 70's, when he was with Weather Report. He talked about thinking up new basslines in his head while on the road between gigs.

[Zombbg4]

I read something similar in Mingus' "auto biography". He said while he was working in a post office he'd be running music through his head all day, and that only need to be on the instrument to keeps his dexterity and what not. But based on that book this could either be true or very false, you know what i'm talking about if you've read it

[azureblue]

Read the Inner Game of Music. And try this: Pick a tune you know, and, without having your bass in your hands, mentally play the entire song, just like you were in front of an audience- no stopping. "See" your fingers go where they should, feel the arm movements and the shifts. Now put together a little riff in your head- just a couple of measures for starts. Now "play it" in your head, and do it over and over until you feel everything about the riff. Now pick up your bass and play. Notice the difference in how you play? Try it again, this time changing some of the noted or rhythms to make anew riff. If you get this down to the point of hearing the pitches fairly accurately you have the first step of composing in your head- the ability to put together a part or song without having to play it first.

[Chebass88]

It is the so-called "Think System", described by Professor Harold Hill in "The Music Man".

ian

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by OliverH

At some point you reach a stage where it isn't about what your body can physically do, but the limitations of your musical knowledge and creativity. If you can think up a new musical idea and play it immediately without having to practice it, you don't need the extra hours of practice, you just need the creativity.

Gee I'd love to be at that level.

I don't really agree with this completely, if at all. There is always room for technical improvement and maintaining a technical ability means practising. The phrase "use it or lose it" comes to mind.

Also it's like a body builder saying "Once you get to a certain build you don't need to lift weights any more". In order to maintain what you have you have to continue to work on it.

Once you get to a certain level you find that you practice things differently and that your practice is generally based around a certain application. This is the whole point of the etude. So it's not so much that you don't need to practice, you just need the "creativity", its' more that your creativity tends to influence what you practice.

On another note I believe that mentally conditioning yourself to play something can be quite useful when practising. Playing through something in your mind without physically playing it can often help you to "embed" something subconsciously. Though I would generally say that this should be done in conjunction with real practice rather than as a substitute for it.

[Lesfunk]

"most of the time i practise my chops without the instruments" - jaco

Jaco was a mess when He said that.

[middlebit]

Originally Posted by ameshokostreet

"most of the time i practise my chops without the instruments" - jaco

This is what he actually says:
"I do most of my practising without even an instrument, just thinking it...’cause my chops...from so many years of playin’"

I don't see anything unlikely, incredible og wrong about the truth of that statement. All he's claiming is that he's got the chops to cover whatever musical idea he can think up when away from his instrument.

[artistanbul]

I think "chops" needs instruments to keep in shape.
my understanding of chops is technical finesse.

of course music, or riffs and such can be thought / created without instruments. but if you try to play it and find yourself unable, it means you've lost your chops.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by artistanbul

I think "chops" needs instruments to keep in shape.
my understanding of chops is technical finesse.

of course music, or riffs and such can be thought / created without instruments. but if you try to play it and find yourself unable, it means you've lost your chops.

I will tell you in a couple more weeks. I broke my little finger and my hand has been in a cast for weeks already. I have worked up some finger independence exercises I can do with the cast on. Also some finger strength exercises within limits of cast. Then mentally i have working on playing things. So I'm hoping when cast comes off getting back up to speed won't take long.

Okay I have tried to play a couple times with the cast on and can't do much. But in my mind I haven't stopped playing and can't wait to try out things I thought of.

[Hoover]

In terms of physical technique: if I spend time mentally visualizing how to execute something on the instrument I find it helps immensely. Once I finally get the instrument in my hands it takes little or no "real" practicing to confirm my mental work.

Doesn't hurt to "practice" musical ideas mentally away from the instrument also...in fact, that's one of the best ways to avoid having the physical attributes of the bass dictating or coercing your musical choices.

[Mike Saville]

There are a lot of advocates of 'visualisation' techniques and the consensus seems to be that if you can imagine in detail the end result then you are more likely to achieve it.

I think the key with these methods (and this applies to every type of practice) is the focus and concentration you put in. It's not good enough with these methods to vaguely wonder what you might sound like - you need to go over the technique in fine detail in your head, imagine what perfect playing will sound like, look like and importantly feel like.

Scientific studies of visualisation techniques seem to indicate that if you imagine the feeling you are using all the muscles you would be using to actually do the playing - another benefit.

I suspect what some of the great names mentioned here mean is that they use mental practice and rehearsal on a different level to most of us and in this way are able to improve without their instruments.

[JEDI BASS]

Originally Posted by Mike Saville

There are a lot of advocates of 'visualisation' techniques and the consensus seems to be that if you can imagine in detail the end result then you are more likely to achieve it.

It works. I first started doing it w/ weight lifting many years ago. Then more recently w/ martial arts, especially before tournament sparring matches.

Negativity: "I CAN'T do ..." is the primary reason that people don't succeed. Believe, visualize, then do.... it's that simple. Wasn't it Yoda who said "Do or do not, there is no try!"? He's right, LOL.

[crow01]

Sometimes I practice theory in my mind, when I take the bus or the train. When I go and rehearse I cannot believe how much I learned.

They did a study with basketball players. They put half in one room, just to imagine throwing the ball. The other half practiced in the courtyard.

Later they put in the courtyard the half team that just imagined throwing, and they score the same or better than the one that practiced.

[Jake of Bass]

^^^ I've heard of that and agree.

Ever met someone and talked with them about not much for a few minutes, then after they've walked off you can't remember their name? And you can meet them again and maybe even again and still not know, even after being told a couple more times?

How about other people that really intrigue you, like a crush for example. You might barely say two words to them but I'll wager in a short time you'll know a lot more about the person than just their name - or try to.

It's because with the first person you weren't mentally engaging with them, just going through the motions. Whereas the second person, even though you weren't physically talking to them, you were focussing your energy and interest and mentally engaging the person, so that impression of the person sticks so much more in your mind.

Practice is a bit like this. Just going through the motions doesn't really do much if you're not really focussing on what you're doing. Whereas mentally really engaging yourself does a lot. I think that's what Jaco was getting to. His head was so into music that he could practice and even improve by absorbing himself mentally to the task more than many do when they're consciously practicing. I've had this before in the past, when there's been something I really want to learn. I'll practice until it frustrates me, come back and can play it after thinking about it for a time. But maybe that's because I've simply relaxed and can focus more. Plus the time away allows me to mentally digest what I've been playing.

I'd better stop right here because I'm beginning to ramble...

[artistanbul]

it will not work. imagining only is not a substitute for practicing with the instrument. by physically practicing, you are teaching your body, recording to your muscle memory, making things reflexive, building up dexterity and endurance. sometimes you don't even have to be fully conscious for physical training. that is what "chops" is about.