I thought country bass was simple??

[rydin4lifebass]

This post has a few separate parts, so I appologize for the length. Recently, I've been trying to learn country bass and have been to some local shows and jam sessions and the bass players get up and hear that a song is in a certain chord and they're able to hit the root-fifth or walk all over the place. To try and be more comfortable with that, I got some chord sheets to practice with which brings me to a question:

I'm looking at the song "If You Don't Like Hank Williams" which is by Hank Jr and follows the following progression for the verse:

I I I V
V V V I
I I I IV
IV I V I

Now I also have the Hal Leonard Country bass book and it describes the "Nashville Chart" as:
I I I I
IV IV I I
V IV I I

Might be a stupid question, but how would I know what songs follow what progressions. Also, the "Nashville Chart" shows a chorus as:

4/5 1 4/5 1
4/5 1/6- 2- 5

If I'm playing root-fifth on the 1 and 3 beat, how would I do a split bar and why do the minor 6 and minor 2 chords come in?


AND

The book explains that a sample line can be made up of a 1-4-5 progression (makes sense) and that a walking bass line can consist of a sixth chord arpeggio (1-3-5-6)..again, makes sense. Then it says the following in regards to a country shuffle walking bass line:

"When there are only two beats per chord, you can use the root and the third. Since the 2 chord (A) is typically minor, you can play A and C (the minor third). The C sets up the root of the 5 chord (D). The 5 chord is dominant (1-3-5-b7), so you can play D and F#. The F# sets up the return to the 1 chord (G). If there is a 2 chord for four beats, you can play the minor 2 chord arpeggio (1-b3-5-b7). If there is a 5 chord for four betas, you can play the 5 chord arpeggio (1-3-5-b7). Two beats on the 4 chord can take the root and major third of C (C-E)"

I honestly don't understand any of that. If we're using a I-IV-V progression, how do the ii and vi come into play? Also, how would someone know what progression to play just by sitting in. I guess if I knew a song in G and knew it followed a certain progression I could transpose to C, for example, but how else would you know what to play?

[Marty Forrer]

Your ears are your best friend. Often, listening to the melody will cue the change. Go to Youtube and immerse yourself. I think you're thinking this too much. Use your ears to work out where the songs are going. Nashville numbering is only going to help you in Nashville recording studios. I've been playing country recordings, shows and gigs for 30 years and have never once come across a chart written in anything but regular chord notation.

[rydin4lifebass]

When you say a chart in regular chord notation, you mean like a lead sheet basically? I definitely over-think things but I try to rationalize everything and make sense of it, and I just can't seem to do that...so much to the point that I think maybe this just isn't my thing.

[onosson]

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

Often, listening to the melody will cue the change. Go to Youtube and immerse yourself. I think you're thinking this too much. Use your ears to work out where the songs are going.

THIS.

I play occasionally with a local singer/guitarist who was steeped in old Hank et al and will often pull out some obscure old country tune. When I try to follow the chord changes, I usually end up getting lost within about 30 secs. But follow the melody, and it all falls into place.

You know what they say about real estate? Location, location, location.

Well, for country, I say: melody, melody, melody.

(actually, works for MANY genres...)

[Etienned]

I think the 2 and 6 are used as turnarounds. 2-5 want to resolve toward 1.

Big imho here

[lowfreq33]

Country isn't as simple as people think. When I started doing country gigs I was very thankful I studied my theory as a wee lad. Knowing substitutions is pretty important.

[MalcolmAmos]

Nashville numbers list the chords as Arabic numbers, i.e. 1-4-5. But some people use the Roman numbers I IV V. Normally when we write about chords and notes we use Arabic for notes and Roman numbers for chords so there is no confusion. "Real" Nashville numbers have from the get go been Arabic numbers.

With fake chord sheet music and 6 string guitar I normally show the chord name on my fake chord sheet music. However, if you have several vocalists that will be requesting many different keys it is easier to use generic 1-4-5 or I IV V instead of grabbing the capo and transposing on the fly. Course you need to know a little theory to pull this off.

When I play 6 string rhythm guitar I think in chord name or Roman numbers, however, when I play fake chord on my bass I think in Arabic numbers. I think that's because I use the major scale box and think in scale degrees, i.e. R-3-5-6, etc. And if I want the I chord I know that is the R on my box pattern and the IV is the 4 on my box pattern. etc.

So there are several ways of notation your chords. Might take a few moments looking at a chord chart to decipher what method has been used.

Country is mostly dirt simple major chords using major chord progressions. On bass root-five (R-5-R-5) is king with chromatic runs to the next chord. Once you know what method was used on the sheet music it really is not all that hard.

Yes some chord progressions use the two and six chords. They would be notated as 2 & 6 in Nashville numbers or ii and vi in Roman numbers - notice lower case Roman numbers meaning minor chords and upper case used for Major chords, I IV V.

I guess it is confusing when you first look at it.

O'h well have fun anyway.

[Marty Forrer]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Country isn't as simple as people think. When I started doing country gigs I was very thankful I studied my theory as a wee lad. Knowing substitutions is pretty important.

Substitions in country? Not around these parts, I'd get fired. Even a flat five gets a sideways glance.

[Marty Forrer]

I will reiterate.... use your ears, not your eyes. I often back up artists with no rehearsal and sometimes no charts. It takes a little practice, but it'sa good skill to have. As I said before, Youtube and CDs are your friends.

[lowfreq33]

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

Substitions in country? Not around these parts, I'd get fired. Even a flat five gets a sideways glance.

Really? I hear them used often in composition, at least with more current stuff. Not generally the bassist's place to add them, but it's quite helpful in constructing basslines to recognize when they're present.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

Substitions in country? Not around these parts, I'd get fired. Even a flat five gets a sideways glance.

+ 1,000 Yep, it's root five and chromatic runs. Anything else will get you fish eyes from the guys.

[vinny]

Simple ≠ easy. Big ears are your friend. +1 to following the melody to catch the changes.

[Russell L]

I always laugh when someone says, "It's easy, just three chords." Well, you still have to know in what order to play them. Sometimes you can feel a change coming, and think you know what chord is coming, but then, it might fool you. I hate sitting in when I don't actually know the songs. I went to a country jam once and couldn't hardly play with them because they all knew a bunch of old obscure songs that I didn't know...

...and I have a theory degree. You just have to know them.

[rydin4lifebass]

Exactly Russell....I mainly try to use the box pattern like Malcolm said but if I don't know what order they're in, it really doesn't help much. I guess I need to work with my instructor and develop my ear. Of course, If I know what progression a song is in, I can play it in any key, just start at a different position.

I have a friend that plays guitar and he knows even less theory than I do and he'll just play and say "just play something"..I just look at him and say "play what, what chords, what progression, what notes are you even playing?" He has no idea so we don't really get too far.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Marty Forrer

Your ears are your best friend. Often, listening to the melody will cue the change. Go to Youtube and immerse yourself. I think you're thinking this too much. Use your ears to work out where the songs are going. Nashville numbering is only going to help you in Nashville recording studios. I've been playing country recordings, shows and gigs for 30 years and have never once come across a chart written in anything but regular chord notation.

+1 use the KISS system. Know the chords, how to walk to them and thru them. keep tight with the drummer, use root/fifths and fills....Oh and don't forget to smile.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Russell L

I always laugh when someone says, "It's easy, just three chords." Well, you still have to know in what order to play them. Sometimes you can feel a change coming, and think you know what chord is coming, but then, it might fool you. I hate sitting in when I don't actually know the songs. I went to a country jam once and couldn't hardly play with them because they all knew a bunch of old obscure songs that I didn't know...

...and I have a theory degree. You just have to know them.

Aint that the truth. No matter what theory you have or experience you have to know the song, have it played, explained or written out before you can play it right. Even if you kind of know it you have to know the bridge, stops etc.

[Nev375]

Originally Posted by bassbully

....Oh and don't forget to smile.

That's the hardest thing right there. I can smile and I can play country, just not at the same time.

[marinecorpsman6]

I have been playing with a band now for a few months and I love it ...my back ground is more in rock ...but I love playing country music ....I have found out if I don't focus I will get lost ....and my lead player gives me the eye...lol....the chord changes in some of the songs are odd to me ...in some cases ....but it is a fun style of music from the old to the new ...we are playing a new song now called ready to roll and the bass line has a Motown feel ....great song ....

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by rydin4lifebass

Exactly Russell....I mainly try to use the box pattern like Malcolm said but if I don't know what order they're in, it really doesn't help much. I guess I need to work with my instructor and develop my ear. Of course, If I know what progression a song is in, I can play it in any key, just start at a different position.

Yes talk to your instructor on this......

Until your ear gets better assume (guess at) the chord progression. When I'm jamming with out sheet music I assume two complete I IV V progression in each verse. Works out most of the time. Try that and as your ear gets better if that is not correct your ear will tell you to try something else ---- if you do not know what else --- revert to the tonic root five eight five. That's about as generic (safe) as you can get. Then there is always the tonic Major or minor - as the case may be - pentatonic notes to mess around with. Major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6.

Good luck.

[rydin4lifebass]

Malcolm..so you usually assume this progression?

I I I I
IV IV I I
V IV I I

I guess the chorus/bridge are a different story though. It just seems to out of reach for me. I don't have a good ear at all so that doesn't help. If I understand you correctly, assume that progression and if it doesn't sound right, try something else, like maybe the song has a quick IV for the second bar, or something like that? I see how that helps if I'm just playing with a cd but if I'm in front of people, if I don't know the song its not like I have to to rewind and replay something.