Identifying musical intervals as applied to a bass line.

[Gladowsky]

After reading about musical intervals and seeing them defined as the distance between two pitches from lowest note to highest how would you name a pitch going from one note DOWN to another?

For example: A typical basic bass line consists of root-five or 1-5 positions, e.g., a pitch movement from middle C up to G. I know that this is a perfect fifth interval. However, the same notes are also found in descending order (middle C to the G note below). What is the name of this second interval? Is it also a 1-5 interval or is it a 1-4 (perfect fourth).

I have often been told to focus on the 1-5 intervals but that would be confusing to a student to say that the bass line consists of 1-5 (C->G) and 1-4 (C->G).

[onlyclave]

An interval is always measured from the bottom up regardless of which note gets played first.

In your example playing C- G would be "up a 5th" and playing from that same G down to C would be "Down a fifth".

[Ed Fuqua]

I don't agree, interval relationships are a seperate entity than scalar relationships. If you're talking about scalar/chordal relationships, you're talking about key signature and if you're talking about key signature then yes, the relationship of the root C is the same (or similar) to the pitch G (could you play the fifth an octave down, the G below C). If you're talking about intervals then you are strictly talking about distance. If you sing C and the play an Eb above, you're talking a minor third. If you sing C and play an Eb below, you're talking a major 6th. Likewise with G, it's a fifth above but a fourth below.

[steve66]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I don't agree, interval relationships are a seperate entity than scalar relationships. If you're talking about scalar/chordal relationships, you're talking about key signature and if you're talking about key signature then yes, the relationship of the root C is the same (or similar) to the pitch G (could you play the fifth an octave down, the G below C). If you're talking about intervals then you are strictly talking about distance. If you sing C and the play an Eb above, you're talking a minor third. If you sing C and play an Eb below, you're talking a major 6th. Likewise with G, it's a fifth above but a fourth below.

I was taught the same way.

[hunta]

Originally Posted by Gladowsky

For example: A typical basic bass line consists of root-five or 1-5 positions, e.g., a pitch movement from middle C up to G. I know that this is a perfect fifth interval. However, the same notes are also found in descending order (middle C to the G note below). What is the name of this second interval? Is it also a 1-5 interval or is it a 1-4 (perfect fourth).

C up to G in the same octave range is a perfect 5th. C down to G is a perfect 4th. A perfect 5th down from C would be F.

As was stated earlier, the distance between the two notes is what matters. Whether you're measuring an ascending interval or a descending interval, the notes will be the same notes. The only thing that makes the calculation any different is the way you think about it. Are you counting down from the top note or up from the bottom note? The result is the same.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by Gladowsky

After reading about musical intervals and seeing them defined as the distance between two pitches from lowest note to highest how would you name a pitch going from one note DOWN to another?

For example: A typical basic bass line consists of root-five or 1-5 positions, e.g., a pitch movement from middle C up to G. I know that this is a perfect fifth interval. However, the same notes are also found in descending order (middle C to the G note below). What is the name of this second interval? Is it also a 1-5 interval or is it a 1-4 (perfect fourth).

I have often been told to focus on the 1-5 intervals but that would be confusing to a student to say that the bass line consists of 1-5 (C->G) and 1-4 (C->G).

I think you're conflating two different things: (a) intervals and (b) degrees of a scale.

With respect to (b), if you use C as a starting point, some kind of G will always be the "5th" degree of the associated scale/mode/key, no matter where it falls. That's what people usually mean when they refer to I-V etc. Thus, when you change from a C chord to a G chord--or even when you just go from C to any G under a straight C chord--you're always going, in harmonic terms, from the "I" to the "V," even if you're moving to a lower-pitched note.

But in terms of (a), any given G does not necessarily lie at an interval of a 5th away from the C. Intervals are strict measures of distance. As noted, the G above a given C is a perfect 5th interval above it, whereas the G below that C is a perfect 4th interval below it.

[ryco]

A m2 inverted is a M7
M2 inverted is m7
m3 inv is M6
M3 inv is m6
P4 inv is P5
A4 inv is D5
D5 inv is A4
P5 inv is P4
m6 inv is M3
M6 inv is m3
m7 inv is M2
M7 inv is m2

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

An interval is always measured from the bottom up regardless of which note gets played first.

In your example playing C- G would be "up a 5th" and playing from that same G down to C would be "Down a fifth".

G to C is a up a 4th as well. So it really does depend on which note you are starting with and which direction you are going with it but both considerations should be taken into account.

To answer the OP moving from G down to C is descending a P5 interval. Descending from C down to G on the other hand is descending a P4 interval. Whereas Ascending from C to G is a P5 up and from G up to C is a P4 up.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I don't agree, interval relationships are a seperate entity than scalar relationships. If you're talking about scalar/chordal relationships, you're talking about key signature and if you're talking about key signature then yes, the relationship of the root C is the same (or similar) to the pitch G (could you play the fifth an octave down, the G below C). If you're talking about intervals then you are strictly talking about distance. If you sing C and the play an Eb above, you're talking a minor third. If you sing C and play an Eb below, you're talking a major 6th. Likewise with G, it's a fifth above but a fourth below.

I never said anything about any scale or key center. C up to G is a perfect fifth, F down to D is a minor 3rd. Intervals a measured from the bottom up.

Perhaps I misread the OPs question, but C up to G is a perfect fifth, that same G note down to the original C is also a perfect fifth. Of course C down to a G is a perfect 4th. My point was that all intervals a measured from the low note to the high note and it doesn't matter which note is played first or if they are played at the same time. The intervallic relationship is the same.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

So it really does depend on which note you are starting with and which direction you are going with it but both considerations should be taken into account.

It does not matter which note you start on or which direction you are going. Intervals a measured from the bottom of two pitches up to the top.

[lemur821]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

It does not matter which note you start on or which direction you are going. Intervals a measured from the bottom of two pitches up to the top.

What difference does it make which one you start on? The only thing that matters is that you don't count up when the note you start on is already on the top.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by lemur821

What difference does it make which one you start on? The only thing that matters is that you don't count up when the note you start on is already on the top.

I just said that.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Intervals a measured from the bottom of two pitches up to the top.

No, not necessarily. You can just as easily measure from the top down. If you want to measure how far it is from Seattle to Tacoma, you can measure from north to south just as well you can as from south to north. It's the same distance either way. And all an interval is is a measure of distance.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by ryco

A m2 inverted is a M7
M2 inverted is m7
m3 inv is M6
M3 inv is m6
P4 inv is P5
A4 inv is D5
D5 inv is A4
P5 inv is P4
m6 inv is M3
M6 inv is m3
m7 inv is M2
M7 inv is m2

As taught in school they add up to 9. Like C to F is up a 4th and down a 5th, 4+5 =9. C to B is up a Ma7th, down a mi2 and again 7+2=9, C to A, up a Ma6th down a mi3, and so on. For major and minor intervals if one up it's the other down. Up a major interval down a minor. Perfect intervals are perfect either direction. Octave up 8, unison down 1 (I know someone is wondering.) Tritone up is a tritone down.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

No, not necessarily. You can just as easily measure from the top down. If you want to measure how far it is from Seattle to Tacoma, you can measure from north to south just as well you can as from south to north. It's the same distance either way. And all an interval is is a measure of distance.

So then by your reasoning I should be able to give a name to the interval middle C to middle Cb?

The distance from Tacoma to Seattle is an absolute value, but to compare it to music you would always express the distance as measured from Tacoma to Seattle regardless if you were driving north or south.

[hunta]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

So then by your reasoning I should be able to give a name to the interval middle C to middle Cb?

The distance from Tacoma to Seattle is an absolute value, but to compare it to music you would always express the distance as measured from Tacoma to Seattle regardless if you were driving north or south.

That interval would be a descending augmented unison. Or A1. Technically.

If you were going from Cb up to C, you'd say it was an ascending A1.

The interval is the same, the only difference is whether it's ascending or descending. Clearly, the distance between Tacoma and Seattle is always the same as the distance between Seattle and Tacoma, the only important thing is which way you're going.

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by hunta

That interval would be a descending augmented unison. Or A1. Technically.

If you were going from Cb up to C, you'd say it was an ascending A1.

The interval is the same, the only difference is whether it's ascending or descending. Clearly, the distance between Tacoma and Seattle is always the same as the distance between Seattle and Tacoma, the only important thing is which way you're going.

Are you sure? Look at this little image.


Edit: HAHAHAHAHAHA 6 lines on the staff. That's what I get for making staff paper at work with Excel. You get the idea though.

[Gladowsky]

I appreciate this discussion - Thanks much! I'm beginning to see this differently now and would like feedback accordingly:

When the common beginning bass method of playing "root-five" is taught it seems that this belongs more in the context of chordal tones. In the typical L-pattern on bass (where the root is in the middle and the fifth is up one string and over two semitones and the octave of that fifth is one string below the root) the fifth below the root is implied as it functions in a chord - 1-3-5-7 etc. But to speak of them as intervals it would indeed be a perfect 4th (G-C) and perfect 5th (C-G). I believe it is the number of semitones between two notes (lowest to highest) that determines the name of the interval. Agree?

[Gladowsky]

Originally Posted by DocBop

As taught in school they add up to 9. Like C to F is up a 4th and down a 5th, 4+5 =9. C to B is up a Ma7th, down a mi2 and again 7+2=9, C to A, up a Ma6th down a mi3, and so on. For major and minor intervals if one up it's the other down. Up a major interval down a minor. Perfect intervals are perfect either direction. Octave up 8, unison down 1 (I know someone is wondering.) Tritone up is a tritone down.

Thanks. I love the symmetry of the bass guitar! Like no other instrument.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Gladowsky

Thanks. I love the symmetry of the bass guitar! Like no other instrument.

That isn't bass specific that is just music theory.