idiotic question: walking bass line

[stranded horse]

Ok, I'm an autodidact and quite new to Jazz stuff. So I wanted to learn how to make a walking bass line.
So if I assume a Jazz standard with a IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7 chord progression there is something that catches my eye:

I assume the following (correct me if im wrong):
I play each chord for 1 bar und split it into quarter note arpeggios (this is standard for a walking bass, right?)

Then if I start at II and use some notes in the minor chord of the II and add some notes that are right next to them to walk up to the V I never play the 7 of this chord, because the dominant of the root comes before the 7 of the II and the same will happen when I walk from V to I and from I to II.

So my question is: are the 7s irrelevant for a walking bass line?

[guroove]

The rules are open to some interpretation, but the way I learned was to play the roots on the 1st beats, and the 5ths on the 3rd beat. You use scale and chord tones to connect them. This isn't the only way, and it's an over simplification, but it's hard to go wrong using this method.

[stranded horse]

But I've read that it is standard for decent Jazz bassists to "chromatize" these basslines, and I want to learn that.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

I wanted to learn how to make a walking bass line.

Then an investment in these is a good idea IMO.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Building-Walking...item33550375f6


http://cgi.ebay.com/TODD-JOHNSON-WAL...item5ad0b50f27

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

Ok, I'm an autodidact and quite new to Jazz stuff. So I wanted to learn how to make a walking bass line.
So if I assume a Jazz standard with a IIm7 - V7 - Imaj7 chord progression there is something that catches my eye:

I assume the following (correct me if im wrong):
I play each chord for 1 bar und split it into quarter note arpeggios (this is standard for a walking bass, right?)

Then if I start at II and use some notes in the minor chord of the II and add some notes that are right next to them to walk up to the V I never play the 7 of this chord, because the dominant of the root comes before the 7 of the II and the same will happen when I walk from V to I and from I to II.
So my question is: are the 7s irrelevant for a walking bass line?

7's are fine and help define the quality of the chord.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Not completely sure if this will be relevant to your question, but anyway I think it may help.

[stranded horse]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Not completely sure if this will be relevant to your question, but anyway I think it may help.

Let me see if I understand this right:
Only on the 1 am I really obliged to play a chord tone and if it suits the melody of the bassline it doesn't have to be the root but can also be the third?

So am I not supposed to express harmonies fully (including the 7) with a walking bassline?

Can you give me one or two examples of walking up or down a perfect fifth, please?

[boomtisk]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

Only on the 1 am I really obliged to play a chord tone and if it suits the melody of the bassline it doesn't have to be the root but can also be the third?

As far as I understand it, this is true. Spelling all the chords out fully would be impossible anyway as you are sorta confined to the quarter notes that define the rhythmic pulse and in some tunes the chords even change in mid-bar. I only make sure that the scales I'm using to connect the roots work well with the chords I'm playing over. I'm not a great jazz bassist by any means but this has worked well for me so far. Of course, using chromatic motion sounds great too in many cases. Your job is really to provide a smooth "connection" between the chords and sorta imply which chords they are. If all you play is arpeggios, your walking line will end up sounding too jumpy and kinda sound like you're playing ska or something. Leave "spelling out the chords" to the guitar or the keys.

[stranded horse]

So my assumption is: In this II-V-I progression, in one bar I have three passing tones to walk a perfect 5th down or a major/minor 4th up.
I guess I can't just walk up all the time, so I have to walk down too, but I am still unsure how to walk these eight semitones of the perfect 5th down without sounding jumpy...

[uethanian]

i'm a little confused what your asking but i'll try to answer

if you're new to walking, try to start chord changes on the root note. later on you can try starting on the fifth, third, and seventh (from greater to lesser frequency). a good line should be a mix of broken chords and step-wise motion (both diatonic and chromatic), and should also vary in register (don't be stuck at the nut).

IME step-wise motion should get more attention than jumping intervals; so rather than

jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump

think

step-step-jump-step-step-step-step-jump-jump




so for examples, take a "ii V7 I" in C

D E F #F G B D B C...
D C B A G G# A B C...
D F A C B A G F E...

notice how i try and use a mix of the two motion-types. also notice at the end of the last example, the F (7th of the V) resolves to E (3rd of the I). so to answer one of your questions, 7s are quite relevant to walking (and soloing) when you start to mix things up.

[uethanian]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

So my assumption is: In this II-V-I progression, in one bar I have three passing tones to walk a perfect 5th down or a major/minor 4th up.
I guess I can't just walk up all the time, so I have to walk down too, but I am still unsure how to walk these eight semitones of the perfect 5th down without sounding jumpy...

it's critical that you know the complete scales and not just the chord tones. if you're moving from G (V7) to C (I), think about the G7 scale

G F E D C (going down)
G A B D C (going up)
G B D Db C (arpeggio up, chromatic down)

that Db on the last on isn't part of the scale, but it's ok to use in passing if it resolves to a chord tone. seems like you're making it a bit complicated by thinking of 'cutting up 8 semitones.' memorize the scales you're walking over and it will become automatic.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

Let me see if I understand this right:
Only on the 1 am I really obliged to play a chord tone and if it suits the melody of the bassline it doesn't have to be the root but can also be the third?

So am I not supposed to express harmonies fully (including the 7) with a walking bassline?

Can you give me one or two examples of walking up or down a perfect fifth, please?

"Obliged" sounds sort of strong to me. Anyway, and as I said in the thread included in my previous post, the root is the first and foremost option, followed by the third and the fifth. I'd also add the 7th for 7th chords (not Maj7) and the 6th for 6th chords as an option. But when using a note other than the root on a strong beat, I try not to play it on the lowest register of the instrument. i.e.: If I see a D7 on the chord chart, I'd think of playing an F# on the strong beat (specially if the chord works as a secondary dominant - I'd definitely play the F# in that case), but I'd never play the low F# on the E string, 2th fret for that.

And no, you are not supposed to reflect complete harmonies with a walking bassline (not that it's prohibited). Just in case this may help you, I'm posting here a couple examples of walking basslines that definitely work (among lots others, of course). Most of the times the root is played on the downbeat, but if you look closely, you'll see some exceptions.

[gregmerrill]

Transcribe bass lines from Ambersold albums. You can isolate the bass with these albums and really hear what the bass is doing. Then you can see what these masters are doing on paper and how it relates to the chord. You will see many 2,5,1 prog and see the many different approaches that are used. The 7th is very important to your line. You will hear many great bassist starting on the 7th for beat one of the chord. But I dont mean beat one of the tune

[stranded horse]

Originally Posted by uethanian

i'm a little confused what your asking but i'll try to answer

if you're new to walking, try to start chord changes on the root note. later on you can try starting on the fifth, third, and seventh (from greater to lesser frequency). a good line should be a mix of broken chords and step-wise motion (both diatonic and chromatic), and should also vary in register (don't be stuck at the nut).

IME step-wise motion should get more attention than jumping intervals; so rather than

jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump-jump

think

step-step-jump-step-step-step-step-jump-jump




so for examples, take a "ii V7 I" in C

D E F #F G B D B C...
D C B A G G# A B C...
D F A C B A G F E...

notice how i try and use a mix of the two motion-types. also notice at the end of the last example, the F (7th of the V) resolves to E (3rd of the I). so to answer one of your questions, 7s are quite relevant to walking (and soloing) when you start to mix things up.

If you say jumping: do you mean playing the note on the one an octave lower or higher than expected?

[uethanian]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

If you say jumping: do you mean playing the note on the one an octave lower or higher than expected?

for practical reasons, lets say moving by any interval larger than a whole tone. doing a C E G B arpeggio is jumping, the intervals between notes are major and minor thirds. C D E F is step-wise, the intervals between notes are whole and half steps.

not to trying to confuse, my main point is to focus on moving up and down the scale rather than outlining the chord associated with the scale.

[uethanian]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

right so for example, the motion of the first four bars would be

Am7: step jump jump step
D7: jump jump step step
Gmaj7: step step step step
Cmaj7: jump jump step step

don't think too hard about it, just see that he uses both types of motion in a walking line

[stranded horse]

Thanks so much already for your help!

Just one more question: all these examples are for progressions with more than 3 chords, but if you just boil it down to the II-V-I, you have to go from I to II in the end, and right now I think it's pretty hard to come up with a nice line here, because you can't go up from root to root, and if you go down you have almost all the scale in front of you.
So is it usual in this case not to go back to II but instead the 3rd or 5th of II, or how would you turn it back to II? Maybe not go to I in the first place?

Walking basslines really turn out more complicated then it thought they would...

And one more: would you generally rather just go in one direction and avoid stuff like D F E F# G, or does this work as well?

[Rudreax]

If you want to learn how to REALLY walk, listen to the masters of it (i.e. the jazz bass players from the past). Listen to their lines, transcribe them, and study them.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by stranded horse

Thanks so much already for your help!

Just one more question: all these examples are for progressions with more than 3 chords, but if you just boil it down to the II-V-I, you have to go from I to II in the end, and right now I think it's pretty hard to come up with a nice line here, because you can't go up from root to root, and if you go down you have almost all the scale in front of you.
So is it usual in this case not to go back to II but instead the 3rd or 5th of II, or how would you turn it back to II? Maybe not go to I in the first place?

Walking basslines really turn out more complicated then it thought they would...

And one more: would you generally rather just go in one direction and avoid stuff like D F E F# G, or does this work as well?

ii V I would have two measures of I usually if it is a repeating pattern, but you can change directions, it looks like you are making the proverbial mountain out of the molehill. (which is ok you are asking for clarification). You're talking about not going back to one etc. The chord progression is a given, work out some lines you think are good sounding, from one chord to the next.

I will typically walk a line for a few minutes on each chord say a ii V I in C, a few minutes walking on just Dminor7, then just G7 then just Cmaj7. Then Dminor7 to G7 for a while, then G7 to Cmaj7 and finally Cmaj7 to Dmi7 one measure each. Very slowly. Then put it all together.

[JTE]

Lots of good stuff here. But here's a "quick 'n' dirty" intro to walking. Play the root on 1. Play the fifth on 3. Use a note on 4 that leads to the next measure on 4. Play a note on 2 that flows smootly and keeps both the line and the harmonic motion moving.

That note on 4 is important. It can be a half-step above or below the next note (diatonic or chromatic). It can be a scale-tone away, or it can be a movement of a fifth. So, going from the ii to the V (Dmin7 to G7 for example) the note on beat 4 of the Dmin7 leading to the G7 can be F# ( half step below), Ab (half step above), F natural or A natural (scalar movement), or D (the fifth moving to the one). Which one is where the music happens.

John