ii-V-I

[iplaybassguitar]

i tried the search, but nothing really came up EXPLAINING what i need.

im just starting to get into jazz and ive seen the ii-V-I progression mentioned a lot on here, but i dont quite know what it means...does it work the same way the I-IV-V works in blues?

if anyone can help me out, id appreciate an explanation as to what exactly this is and how it works in jazz.

thank you!

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by iplaybassguitar

i tried the search, but nothing really came up EXPLAINING what i need.

im just starting to get into jazz and ive seen the ii-V-I progression mentioned a lot on here, but i dont quite know what it means...does it work the same way the I-IV-V works in blues?

if anyone can help me out, id appreciate an explanation as to what exactly this is and how it works in jazz.

thank you!

In a very basic way... yes, that is, the Roman numberals refer to chords in the same way. Jazz context often uses the ii7 as a subsitute for IV. But in the real world of jazz the understanding and use of the ii7-V7-I is a lot more complex. Check out some of the books and writtings on this website:

http://www.aebersold.com

Jamie as done an incredible job of articulating the workings of jazz. He has an excellent book and CD on ii7-V7-I and a fantastic book on the Blues.... along with about 100 other books all equally good.

[tzadik]

The best approx $30 you'll ever spend is on a book by Mark Levine called The Jazz Theory Book.

[Correlli]

I-II-V-I is an elaboration of the fundamental harmonic progression I-V-I.

Bach and other great composers used it all the time. another popular progression is I-III-V-I

[Lowtonejoe]

Originally Posted by iplaybassguitar

i tried the search, but nothing really came up EXPLAINING what i need.

im just starting to get into jazz and ive seen the ii-V-I progression mentioned a lot on here, but i dont quite know what it means...does it work the same way the I-IV-V works in blues?

if anyone can help me out, id appreciate an explanation as to what exactly this is and how it works in jazz.

thank you!

And maybe examples from standards that are ii V I or II V I or ii7 V7 I?

Pretty please?

(If this would be considered a hijack, I'm sorry.)



Joe.

[Fong249]

Road Song utilizes alot of II V I's. So does Sugar I believe, Solar.

[steveb98]

I remember my Dick Grove classes and Dick said all tunes rock, jazz, classical can be analyzed down to II-V-I. The key is using the subsitution chords. iii and vi are sub's for I. IV is a sub for II. Last vii is a sub for V.

I would suggest like Tzadik did get the Mark Levine book _Jazz Theory_.

[Stumpy]

Originally Posted by tzadik

The best approx $30 you'll ever spend is on a book by Mark Levine called The Jazz Theory Book.

+1 to that. It is clearing up a great deal for me.

C d e F G a b C
I ii iii IV V vi vii I



c f b
a d g
f b e
d g c

ii7 V7 I7

One of the early brass exercizes was to play through the chord starting on the ii7 chord followed by the V7 chord followed by the I7. Then you would turn the I7 chord into the ii7 chord of the next set. and go on. You would end up playing through the whole circle. It took a good deal of time because you needed to do it by ear, brain, and fingers. No book or sheets with writing on it.

But I think that I can hear those changes better than ever before.

Go to Jamies website or even amazon. Get the book. Have your head exploded with the information. Get better. Re-read the book. Have your head exploded with the information. Get better. repeat.

[thewanderer24]

[quote=StumpyOne of the early brass exercizes was to play through the chord starting on the ii7 chord followed by the V7 chord followed by the I7. Then you would turn the I7 chord into the ii7 chord of the next set. and go on. You would end up playing through the whole circle. It took a good deal of time because you needed to do it by ear, brain, and fingers. No book or sheets with writing on it.
[/QUOTE]

If you go like this, you'll only get half the keys, as you are moving in whole steps. You need to move up (or down) a half step after you get through 6 keys, and keep going.

[tkozal]

When I had this same question ohh soo many years ago, I bought the Aebersold Play Along called "The II-V7-I Progression". Full of examples, and songs to play along with. Even though it was designed for horns, as there is a trio backing, it helped me a lot. Now on CD, I have it on Vinyl!


http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merch...ry_Code=AEBALL

[Lowtonejoe]

Originally Posted by tkozal

When I had this same question ohh soo many years ago, I bought the Aebersold Play Along called "The II-V7-I Progression". Full of examples, and songs to play along with. Even though it was designed for horns, as there is a trio backing, it helped me a lot. Now on CD, I have it on Vinyl!


http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merch...ry_Code=AEBALL

Thanks for the tip.

I just ordered it.



Joe.

[Correlli]

Originally Posted by steveb98

I remember my Dick Grove classes and Dick said all tunes rock, jazz, classical can be analyzed down to II-V-I.

How does that work?

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by steveb98

I remember my Dick Grove classes and Dick said all tunes rock, jazz, classical can be analyzed down to II-V-I. The key is using the subsitution chords. iii and vi are sub's for I. IV is a sub for II. Last vii is a sub for V.

Not exactly. You see, there was a time in classical music before the "reign of the dominant 7 chord" where you would use voice movement in a contrary/parallel motion as one way to get from one chord to another. Cadences of this sort sound much more interesting to me. The dominant 7 chord became popular in cadences because it gave good harmonic forward motion -- a good motive to resolve to the next chord. It's a very different concept, for example, using compression or expansion to connect chords rather than voice leading.

Fortunately with the rise of the Equal Interval System (EIS), pioneered by Lyle "Spud" Murphy (arranger for Fletcher Henderson band, etc.) there has been more utilization of this other type of non-dominant-7th-chord-dependant cadences. You can hear of composers/arrangers for movie soundtracks using EIS. Among the famous musicians who studied EIS are Herbie Hancock and Oscar Peterson.

[Mottlefeeder]

Originally Posted by geoffkhan

Not exactly. You see, there was a time in classical music before the "reign of the dominant 7 chord" where you would use voice movement in a contrary/parallel motion as one way to get from one chord to another. Cadences of this sort sound much more interesting to me. The dominant 7 chord became popular in cadences because it gave good harmonic forward motion -- a good motive to resolve to the next chord. It's a very different concept, for example, using compression or expansion to connect chords rather than voice leading.

Fortunately with the rise of the Equal Interval System (EIS), pioneered by Lyle "Spud" Murphy (arranger for Fletcher Henderson band, etc.) there has been more utilization of this other type of non-dominant-7th-chord-dependant cadences. You can hear of composers/arrangers for movie soundtracks using EIS. Among the famous musicians who studied EIS are Herbie Hancock and Oscar Peterson.

I lost it about line 3. Could you simplify 'voice movement in parallel motion', 'expansion or compression', and give an example of an equal interval resolution of a chord sequence?

Ideally, could you give us a start chord and an end chord, and use that as a vehicle to demonstrate each of the techniques/structures you have mentioned?

[slybass3000]

A simple guide line here for you to use the II-V-I would be to modify all your V chords into a II-V to get the feel of it.

For example in your typical blues like this:
I |I |I |I |IV |IV |I |I |V |V |I |V ||

would become in the key of C as an example:

C7 |C7 |C7 |gm7-c7|F7 |F7 |C7 |C7 |dmi7 |g7 |C7 |dm7-g7 ||.

Hope this will help,

SB

PS. me too I'm a former Dick Grove student. I miss him a lot. He was a total genius.