Improvising

thburninbassist · #1 07-03-2011, 12:18 PM

A friend of mine gave me a quick run through on the basics of improvising. I know enough to get by but could someone post some links or advice on improve? Thanks.

JakeDPR · #2 07-03-2011, 09:08 PM

Listen to Phil Lesh. He is awesome

**Pacman** · #3 07-04-2011, 02:33 AM

Improvisation isn't a technique.

Moved to General Instruction.

tekdiver500ft · #4 07-04-2011, 05:27 AM

The best piece of advice I ever got about improvising was:

if you hit a "wrong" note, don't jump off it right away. Let it ring, let it be discordant, make it look deliberate. Then, figure out how to resolve the discordance, and play to that, the resolution will sound wonderful.

DanAleks · #5 07-04-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

The best piece of advice I ever got about improvising was:

if you hit a "wrong" note, don't jump off it right away. Let it ring, let it be discordant, make it look deliberate. Then, figure out how to resolve the discordance, and play to that, the resolution will sound wonderful.

Happiness is just a half step away...

tekdiver500ft · #6 07-04-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanAleks

Happiness is just a half step away...

Exactly! When I said "figure out..." I meant to decide if you want to go up or down.

devine · #7 07-04-2011, 08:15 AM

Hi mate,

I'm not sure where you are as a player... but, i've got some good tutorials on my lessons website that might point you in the right direction. Take a look and see for yourself... Free Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons

Hope you find something in there,

Scott.

Free Online Bass Lessons - Scott's Bass Lessons
SCOTT DEVINE-BASS PLAYER-COMPOSER-EDUCATOR

enricogaletta · #8 07-04-2011, 12:42 PM

Improvising is a huge universe, just try to look on the web and try to think about a "program" to follow developing all the argoments.
Harmony is equal for every instruments, you need just to study it and apply to the techniques and bass rules. If you need more help just contact me, I will happy to help you.
Good luck.
Cheers. Enrico
YouTube
My Album
WebSite

DanAleks · #9 07-04-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

Exactly! When I said "figure out..." I meant to decide if you want to go up or down.

Sorry if it seemed I was disagreeing with you. I thought you were spot on & I was merely embellishing.

My happiness comment was an adage I learned from a seasoned jazz sax player (garlic and marjoram, if I remember correctly...)

monroe55 · #10 07-05-2011, 03:58 AM

Jazz Improvisation techniques, tips, & inspiration - JazzAdvice.com

SMILEYSIXX · #11 07-05-2011, 08:29 AM

Best advice I ever got: Learn your scales, learn your modes, play on the one and DON'T FAKE THE FUNK.

JTE · #12 07-05-2011, 08:46 AM

Well, real improvisation is about creating on the spot. So that's a HUGE area and there aren't any real tricks or quick solutions. Part of it is being open to and LISTENING to what else is going on around you, taking it all in and letting that stuff trigger a response in you. Think like a good jazz band (Miles et. al. Dizzy and Bird, etc.), the early Allman Bros., Cream, and The Dead on a good night.

Now the key to good improvisation is having good ideas and being able to express them on your instrument. There's plenty of stuff on the mechanical aspects of this- how to analyze chord progressions, find notes that fit, rhythmic displacement, etc. But how to get to the heart of what YOU have to bring to the music? Here's an exercise that, while slow and arduous, will give you the great benefit of not merely wiggling your fingers and calling that "improvisation".

Record the chord progression over which you'll be soloing, and the melody to the song (if applicable- and it generally IS applicable even if there's no lyrics). Then lock up your bass in its case so you won't be tempted to touch it for a while.

Play back that recording over and over and over. Just listen to it- take it in, and don't analyze yet. Just get it in your head. Then SING out loud what you think a good solo for that section would be. Sing it without regard to scales, chords, (and don't even breathe the word "mode") etc. Just let the music come out of your mouth. When you think you've gotten a good one, record what you just sang.

Now and only now get your bass out. Learn to play EXACTLY what you sang. The notes on the fingerboard are only the framework for what you're trying to learn. So get the exact notes (even the "odd" ones, heck ESPECIALLY the "odd ones"). But cop the exact phrasing, the dynamics (both volume and tones), how you sneak up on some notes and nail others dead on, etc. Learn all that on the bass. That's the music in you coming out of the bass.

Only after you've learned your little solo, analyze it. Figure out where you used chord tones and where you used diatonic passing tones, and where you used chromatic ones. See how the rhythm worked against your background, etc.

Another part of this is to build your vocabulary by exposing yourself to great improvisors. Now given that most electric bass players are coming from a pop music/rock oriented background, be warned- most popular guitarists aren't really great improvisors. As much as I love Eric Clapton's playing for its emotional impact, and I think he's one of the primary musicians in my development, he's not a brilliant improvisor. In fact in the very wide "rock" guitar pantheon, I'd only include Duane Allman, Mike Stern ('though he's more into the jazz/rock fusion side of rock guitar) and John Scofield as examples of excellent improvisors.

Listen to Ella Fitzgerald, Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Roy Hodges, Coleman Hawkins, John Coltrane, Oscar Peterson, Joe Pass (oops, slipped another guitarist in on ya), Freddie Hubbard, Nate and Cannonball Adderly, Louis Armstrong, etc. for ideas. Listen to how they phrase, their dynamics, the way they hit notes against the rhythm, what notes they use (and don't use) for different chords, how what they improvise relates to the song's melody, etc.

Build your vocabulary. It's like writing. If all you read are Harry Potter and Mad Magazine, you won't be able to write like Shakespeare or T. S. Elliot. And reading Shakespeare, Elliot, Homer, etc. won't make you SOUND like them when you write, so listening to Davis, Gillespie, Fitzgerald, etc. won't make you sound like them when you improvise.

I'd also suggest highly listening critically to great improvisors in action- live recordings of them doing the same songs is great. It allows you to start seeing the different ways they'd approach the same set of changes/melody line with different players. Even withi the narrow confines of real improvised rock music, you can see how Clapton/Bruce/Baker toss ideas back and forth- how Ginger does something on the cymbals that makes Jack do something different on bass that triggers a response from Eric that gives Ginger a different idea on the drums- on the live version of "Spoonful" for example.

John

BassChuck · #13 07-05-2011, 10:15 AM

jazzbooks.com

cire113 · #14 07-05-2011, 04:58 PM

improvising is easy ... everyone already does it when they speak..

Basically you have a vocabulary and when you talk its totally improvised... same thing in music..but you are using vocabulary and words you know...

Don't over think it and make it more complicated its very simple...

Listen to the jazz greats everyday ... you'll be a great improviser really fast!!!

Listen to lots of different music to get different ideas and creativity from

**Pacman** · #15 07-05-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire113

improvising is easy ... everyone already does it when they speak..

Basically you have a vocabulary and when you talk its totally improvised... same thing in music..but you are using vocabulary and words you know...

Don't over think it and make it more complicated its very simple...

Listen to the jazz greats everyday ... you'll be a great improviser really fast!!!

Listen to lots of different music to get different ideas and creativity from

Right, don't worry about practicing, or analyzing - just listen. It's exactly like speaking.

Wrong.

I listen to Japanese every day, and yet I don't speak much Japanese at all. Why is that?

Also, it takes a lot more than getting a vocabulary to learn how to speak. If it were that easy, would lolipops dance for brown painted cookbooks? (you can't just throw random words together and get them to convey meaning)

HeadyVan Halen · #16 07-05-2011, 05:26 PM

Learn the melody and not just the bass line.
It makes you think 'on top' of the music instead of 'inside' it.

Now go practice.

cire113 · #17 07-09-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Right, don't worry about practicing, or analyzing - just listen. It's exactly like speaking.

Wrong.

I listen to Japanese every day, and yet I don't speak much Japanese at all. Why is that?

Also, it takes a lot more than getting a vocabulary to learn how to speak. If it were that easy, would lolipops dance for brown painted cookbooks? (you can't just throw random words together and get them to convey meaning)

Music is a language... Actually it really is that simple... sorry it hasnt worked for you.. Read my post i never said dont practice or analyze lol..

I feel like people make it way more complicated than it is.. Its exactly like learning any other language

Everyone is different though do what works for you and makes you happy

**Pacman** · #18 07-09-2011, 07:45 PM

Well, I for one would love to hear some examples of how well that's worked for you! I would love to learn some vocabulary from you - please post some links to where we can hear your work.

OPBASSMAN1994 · #19 07-09-2011, 07:55 PM

Scales. Chords. Those two things can be broken down a million different ways. That's where the best improv practice lies, is in learning scales and deconstructed chords (play through the notes of a chord). Another good idea: learn to jam with a guitarist really well. Listen to Rush and Cream. Geddy Lee/Alex Lifeson and Jack Bruce/Eric Clapton's bass and guitar work run together usually, especially live. Provide the counter to a melody, make the harmony or your own melody. When you are in a situation where you are doing that, you learn to keep things interesting.

SLaPiNFuNK · #20 07-09-2011, 09:38 PM

Transcribe Transcribe Transcribe...

The first tune I transcribed was Miles Davis - So What. Not the bass stuff... Miles solo... Analyze that, its all over D- and Eb- so you are not going to be analyzing for months, but you can get an idea of what to do over just one chord.

As far as bass lines, same thing... the more you transcribe and learn, the more you can apply that to your own style.