Inane theory question...again. What are you all going to do with me?

Grayson C. · #1 06-22-2009, 07:49 PM

So I'm off from school for the summer and I decided, why not do something useful? Help the world, cure cancer, etc. etc.

Or, instead, I could be entirely self indulgant and actually learn how to read music ;D

Turns out I already did know how to read music. I just was lying to myself the whole time. Back when I was 4 or 5, I had guitar lessons and I swore that I remembered nothing from them. Well that was untrue, I totally know the basics behind reading treble clef and with a small bit of googling to get the EGBDF and FACE equivalents, I know know how to read bass clef! All that stands in my way now is practice practice practice! And I'm so ok with being the sole obstacle towards getting better - at this point all I need to do is just do it!

But I've got a question.

Say you're, you know, groovin' away on something and you've just hit the third fret on the A string, a C, if you will. Well, I know how to play some bass but my reading skills don't match my playing skills by a longshot. If I wanted to, say, go an octave and a half higher with the chord change or some absurd change in notes like that - what sort of signal would the sheet music give me?

I guess my question is: If (ignoring extending the lines and excluding sharps and flats because I'm nowhere near awesome enough to be able to read that fluently yet) there are only 9 notes in bass clef - GBDFA and ACEG - how does one move across octaves?

Examples would be perfect, if they're available.

McStuff · #2 06-22-2009, 07:57 PM

Are you talking about above and below the staff? If so, these notes are indicated with ledger lines. Here's an example with the notes labeled:

Grayson C. · #3 06-22-2009, 08:03 PM

Do you just extend to infinity? That seems silly, though...

I often play parts tat involve the lowest and highest notes of my bass - sure extensions can cover that range but I'd imagine it would end up being clumsy and unweildy. I haven't actually done the math though, does that chart you gave show the entirey of a bass' range?

Then what about piano? With 88 keys, I can't imagine it would fit on only two clefs...

McStuff · #4 06-22-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayson C.

Do you just extend to infinity? That seems silly, though...

I often play parts tat involve the lowest and highest notes of my bass - sure extensions can cover that range but I'd imagine it would end up being clumsy and unweildy. I haven't actually done the math though, does that chart you gave show the entirey of a bass' range?

Then what about piano? With 88 keys, I can't imagine it would fit on only two clefs...

There is also the 8va and 8vb notation. 15ma indicates two octaves up, and 15mb indicates two octaves down. Here's an example of 8va:

TheBasicBassist · #5 06-22-2009, 08:09 PM

there are also symbles such as 8va with a little ------- which means play the note(s) and octave higher
and
8 bass with a little ------- which means play the note(s) an octave lower.

Grayson C. · #6 06-22-2009, 08:14 PM

Ahh that explains it!!!

Thank you guys, you've helped me greatly

I've also got another silly question...bear with me and remember I'm pretty much teaching myself...

On bass clef, that top line, the fifth one, is an A, no? Well which A would I play? 2nd fret of the G string? Open A string?

Urian · #7 06-22-2009, 08:19 PM

Your question is not that "insane"...

Just because YOU play them that high on the fretboard doesn't mean that it would be written out that way on your sheet music (etudes, transcriptions, etc).

You would be wise to watch out (like Grayson and McStuff pointed out) for the octave notation.

Try "reading" the original octave on the music, BUT actually play an octave or two higher on your fretboard.

In the real world, you have options, and if you are reading chord charts or even music that already has a part written in for bass, most times it will not be written as "high" as it was intended to be played.

My .02, YMMV, blah, blah, blah...

Grayson C. · #8 06-22-2009, 08:21 PM

"Just because YOU play them that high on the fretboard doesn't mean that it would be written out that way on your sheet music (etudes, transcriptions, etc)."

Every time I play now I try to picture what m playing would look like if notated. So if I play something high up, I need to know what it looks like

McStuff · #9 06-22-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urian

Your question is not that "insane"...

I believe his title says inane, meaning insignificant.

Also, I've edited my post to include correct double octave notation.

Urian · #10 06-22-2009, 08:22 PM

You would play the second fret on G.

An octave lower would be shown as the second "space" on the clef... which could be played 5th fret on E or open A (as you know).

Urian · #11 06-22-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McStuff

I believe his title says inane, meaning insignificant.

Also, I've edited my post to include correct double octave notation.

Point taken.

Saw your edit, but as I previously posted, I think the OP would be better to think in terms of recognizing the notes anywhere on the fretboard since you will hardly see music written for bass above the 8th "bar".

Again, ymmv...

Technically you are right McStuff.

McStuff · #12 06-22-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urian

Point taken.

Saw your edit, but as I previously posted, I think the OP would be better to think in terms of recognizing the notes anywhere on the fretboard since you will hardly see music written for bass above the 8th "bar".

Again, ymmv...

Technically you are right McStuff.

My view on reading music is slightly skewed because my first instrument was trumpet. The concepts still apply, but I can't really apply the range to bass. I can kinda read bass clef, but I'm leagues better at reading treble.

Urian · #13 06-22-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McStuff

My view on reading music is slightly skewed because my first instrument was trumpet. The concepts still apply, but I can't really apply the range to bass. I can kinda read bass clef, but I'm leagues better at reading treble.

Kudos.

I started on Violin

McStuff · #14 06-22-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urian

Kudos.

I started on Violin

I guess I just like loud instruments.

JimmyM · #15 06-22-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayson C.

Ahh that explains it!!!

Thank you guys, you've helped me greatly

I've also got another silly question...bear with me and remember I'm pretty much teaching myself...

On bass clef, that top line, the fifth one, is an A, no? Well which A would I play? 2nd fret of the G string? Open A string?

2nd fret of G string, 7th fret of D string, 12th fret of A string, 17th fret of E string.

As for ledger lines, yes, it does seem confusing at first. But the late great studio guitar legend Tommy Tedesco once had good advice about learning to read notes written on ledger lines...practice it!

KPAX · #16 06-26-2009, 12:01 PM

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayson C.

I often play parts that involve the lowest and highest notes of my bass

Mazatleco17 · #17 07-03-2009, 01:59 AM

Really good info here, learning how to read bass clef.

Jim Carr · #18 07-03-2009, 04:21 AM

In may I have over-looked it above, but it should be pointed out that the bass, like the double bass, sounds an octave lower than written.

Febs · #19 07-03-2009, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBasicBassist

there are also symbles such as 8va with a little ------- which means play the note(s) and octave higher
and
8 bass with a little ------- which means play the note(s) an octave lower.

Note that while you will often see a dashed line or a bracket used in conjunction with the "8va" and "8vb" markings, the bracket or dashed line is not essential. If there is no bracket or dashed line, the word "loco" is used to indicate to return to the written octave.

dalkowski · #20 07-03-2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

... the late great studio guitar legend Tommy Tedesco once had good advice about learning to read notes written on ledger lines...practice it!

If TT said to practice while standing in a washtub full of water during a thunderstorm, I'd do it. That guy was a total god. Hand him anything with strings and show him a chart, and he'd nail it first time, everytime.