Interested in theory

[onatire]

So I've been playing guitar for a long time and recently started playing bass in a band and I love it... it just feels right and I have a level of comfort playing bass that I never felt playing guitar. Anyhow...With my new found love of bass came a new found interest in improving my skills. I feel that learning some music theory would really help me but I'm having a hard time keeping interested since I've been playing music for 7 years and the music books I find are written for beginners. Does anyone have any suggestions on instructional material that might better suit my situation or do I just need to suck it up and learn it.

Also, How important is reading music when it comes to learning theory. I have basic understanding of reading music and can figure it out with some time but I am a long way from being able to sight read.

1000 thanks in advance

[JimmyM]

suck it up and learn it and quit being so impatient. also, i don't know how anyone can learn theory without knowing how to read. some do, for sure, but it's the long way around. reading music and knowing theory can shave years off your development process as a musician.

[Eminentbass]

Reading music goes hand in hand with learning theory and improving skills. One can learn scales, modes and arpeggios without reading but there's a lot of benefit to practising etudes from cello and trombone method books. Then there's the "chord studies for electric bass" book that's taken off on here as well.

Those kind of books might have technically challenging bits in them so it's important to go slowly but the plus is that you don't need to sight read them because it takes time to get the exercises right and figure out fingering. Your reading skills will develope alongside your technical skills. I can tell you from experience that learning to read once you can already play is a serious drag.

Also check out Ed Friedlands books. I've got "bass improvisation" which contains theoretical information but puts it in an applied musical context along with tracks to jam with.

Focus on learning music not technique. By that I mean keep a check on your technique but practice exercises that mainly focus on musical information. Developing chops via technical-only exercises will leave you at a loss for something to say in a musical situation(another thing gleamed from embarrassing experience ).

[HunterBrodt]

I dont think its neccesary to know how to read to learn theory coming from my experiance. But it might be slanted since I can read I just dont do it much. Playing a lot is defently one way as long as your playing the right stuff.

I guess my knowledge came around really fast.
Youll be in a dark area of knowledge, then dim, then youll be in the light and stuff will start clicking and making a ton of sense.

Play jazz with people, that will help with improv.

[MalcolmAmos]

I look upon reading standard notation as a skill.
I look upon music theory as the study of how music thinks.

The two go hand in hand, however, can be studied separately.

Most bass books deal with the theory involved with playing bass - which is not the whole story. IMO you have to start at the beginning to understand theory. You then take that knowledge to your instrument. For example it is important to understand:

• How the major scale is constructed, why does the E major scale have four sharps and the F major scale have one flat and no sharps?
• Why do people get bent out of shape when I use the wrong name for A#/Bb?
• How do I decide what notes are to be used in a chord?
• Why are some of the chords so complicated? Is all that necessary?
• Can box patterns help me or should I just know where the notes are?
• How do I know which scales to play over certain chords?
• How do I know which chords to put under my melody notes?
• How do I know what makes certain notes sound good together?
• And why do some things I do just sound like noise?

Theory is a journey. Start with how the major scale is constructed and keep going till you understand how to make a melody line and a bass line sound good together. It involves a lot of reading. Your pubic library will have theory books, they do not have to be bass specific. In fact an inexpensive keyboard and a piano theory book is an excellent way to "see" how theory works. Alfred's # 1 comes to mind. http://www.amazon.com/Alfreds-Essent.../dp/0882848976

Good luck.

[ridgeback]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

suck it up and learn it and quit being so impatient. also, i don't know how anyone can learn theory without knowing how to read. some do, for sure, but it's the long way around. reading music and knowing theory can shave years off your development process as a musician.

its NOT an exact science..reading will without question help you improve as will learnig all the scales and all the modes and so on but its not needed,most pro bands dont read and as for scales and the likes,i read in bassguitar mag not long ago an interview with stuart zender and he said he does not know any scales he just plays what he feels and adjusts to fit..and similar with bill sheean he claims he knows the major and minor sacle thats it...my point is it really depends on yourself..if you want to get better learn the theory it can be boring and hard but try make it fun..knowing the boring parts will help you improve wayyyyyy faster than if you just go it alone..it depends on what you want to get out of playing the bass.

[onatire]

Thanks for the advice...I will have to pick up the "bass improvisation" book and keep jamming and practicing. Now that I'm playing bass I have I have a lot more interest in improving I think when I played guitar I spend all my time wanting 2 play things exactly the same so TABS showed me how to do that... now with bass I feel a lot more free to put my own style in songs so I am way more interested in what makes the music work...from what everyone is saying the boring moments of learning seem like they will be well worth it in the long run.

[bassandbeyond]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

suck it up and learn it and quit being so impatient. also, i don't know how anyone can learn theory without knowing how to read. some do, for sure, but it's the long way around. reading music and knowing theory can shave years off your development process as a musician.

+1

I've had a lot of students who were reluctant to work on reading. They are also usually the ones who progress the slowest and experience the most confusion.

[ridgeback]

have a look here as a starting point..i think its a fantastic site for any bass player(or anyone for that matter).great information and easy to get through.. hard work and practice,there is no easy way but you have the right attitude and thats always a great thing learning anything good luck and have fun. thats what its all about

http://www.studybass.com/

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

+1

I've had a lot of students who were reluctant to work on reading. They are also usually the ones who progress the slowest and experience the most confusion.

Reading also forces you to play things that don't fit neatly in patterns on the fingerboard, helping you to really learn the neck and alternate fingerings. I find it odd how hard we have to push reading. It is the #1 door to musical knowledge. I read all day long, doesn't mean I get a lot of reading gigs, it does mean it's a valuable skill.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by ridgeback

its NOT an exact science..reading will without question help you improve as will learnig all the scales and all the modes and so on but its not needed,most pro bands dont read and as for scales and the likes,i read in bassguitar mag not long ago an interview with stuart zender and he said he does not know any scales he just plays what he feels and adjusts to fit..and similar with bill sheean he claims he knows the major and minor sacle thats it...my point is it really depends on yourself..if you want to get better learn the theory it can be boring and hard but try make it fun..knowing the boring parts will help you improve wayyyyyy faster than if you just go it alone..it depends on what you want to get out of playing the bass.

here's the problem with that line of logic...most of us ain't billy sheehan or stuart zender. the vast majority of folks who don't learn to read and learn theory bang out a handful of bad sounds for about 6 months, then they have no idea how to progress from there, so they get bored and stick their instrument under the bed until their future wife forces them to sell it to make room for her junk.

as far as it not being an exact science, it kind of is. yeah, the notes you choose aren't an exact science, but notation and chord theory has been around unchanged for so long that it's pretty exact at this point. i see no upside to not learning it, and i've never seen someone who's learned it regret learning it. i have, however, seen a lot of people who didn't learn it regret it.

[ridgeback]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

here's the problem with that line of logic...most of us ain't billy sheehan or stuart zender. the vast majority of folks who don't learn to read and learn theory bang out a handful of bad sounds for about 6 months, then they have no idea how to progress from there, so they get bored and stick their instrument under the bed until their future wife forces them to sell it to make room for her junk.

as far as it not being an exact science, it kind of is. yeah, the notes you choose aren't an exact science, but notation and chord theory has been around unchanged for so long that it's pretty exact at this point. i see no upside to not learning it, and i've never seen someone who's learned it regret learning it. i have, however, seen a lot of people who didn't learn it regret it.

some people do very well without learning theory some dont it depends on the person,some people learn bass for fun and are quite happy to play along with a cd they dont want to learn scales and read music,hence the not an exact science bit.(wrong choice of words,sorry )...i think its easier to learn at the start than having to go back and learn it later..your quite right lots do regret not learning..i used stu zender and billy sheean as examples of people that never learned (some people are gifted some have to work at it),i am quite sure there are more..it all depends what you want from music and how far you want to go to try Develop your skills.

[JimmyM]

well just remember that billy and stu and people like them who understand music well without formal training are flukes

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

suck it up and learn it and quit being so impatient. also, i don't know how anyone can learn theory without knowing how to read. some do, for sure, but it's the long way around. reading music and knowing theory can shave years off your development process as a musician.

I'm going to go ahead and +1 this even tho I did learn theory long before I got seriously into reading.

Fact is, I knew the lines and spaces on the bass and treble clef and some basic rhythm notation when I began studying theory, but no way could I read worth a darn. But knowing just that much helped tremendously.

The other point to consider is that using theory means learning by examples of how its applied , and notation is the most efficient way to communicate examples....

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by mambo4

I'm going to go ahead and +1 this even tho I did learn theory long before I got seriously into reading.

Fact is, I knew the lines and spaces on the bass and treble clef and some basic rhythm notation when I began studying theory, but no way could I read worth a darn. But knowing just that much helped tremendously.

i'm not saying you have to be a GOOD reader

[Stumbo]

You might want to check out the link in my sig. below.

Good luck!

[Distant Cousin]

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

+1

I've had a lot of students who were reluctant to work on reading. They are also usually the ones who progress the slowest and experience the most confusion.

It sounds like I would be one of those students! After four years of studying reading and theory, I've come to the conclusion that they just don't come naturally to me. I keep at it because I know it will be beneficial in the long run but I really don't enjoy it, and I guess you could say I am reluctant to learn it. I can't think of things from a theory perspective, which means even with relatively simple concepts I can get very confused very easily and quickly. I've been stuck on harmony and chord theory for about a year. My teacher is great with it, he's very patient and tries to explain it as simply as possible but I'm certain that it's just the way my brain works that means I find it so difficult.

A lot of people seem to think that people who are reluctant to learn theory/reading are lazy or impatient. I'm not saying that you're one of those people by any means, but I definitely get that impression from a lot of people. I'm reluctant to learn because it's getting to the stage where I feel like I will never make any headway or significant progress. I don't feel like I'll ever be good at it, basically.

Also, to the OP: I'd recommend getting the AB Guide to Music Theory, Part I. It's a British book, published by the Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, but it has all the information you need for theory up to Grade 5, and I've used it as a reference more times than I can count. Only £6-8 as well.

EDIT - Even less than £6! http://www.amazon.co.uk/AB-Guide-Mus...9540545&sr=8-1

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Distant Cousin

It sounds like I would be one of those students! After four years of studying reading and theory, I've come to the conclusion that they just don't come naturally to me. I keep at it because I know it will be beneficial in the long run but I really don't enjoy it, and I guess you could say I am reluctant to learn it. I can't think of things from a theory perspective, which means even with relatively simple concepts I can get very confused very easily and quickly. I've been stuck on harmony and chord theory for about a year. My teacher is great with it, he's very patient and tries to explain it as simply as possible but I'm certain that it's just the way my brain works that means I find it so difficult.

A lot of people seem to think that people who are reluctant to learn theory/reading are lazy or impatient. I'm not saying that you're one of those people by any means, but I definitely get that impression from a lot of people. I'm reluctant to learn because it's getting to the stage where I feel like I will never make any headway or significant progress. I don't feel like I'll ever be good at it, basically.

self-fulfilling prophecy, dude. if you feel like you'll never be good at it, you won't.

[Distant Cousin]

True, but being stuck on something like harmony or whatever for a year, it's hard to think any other way!