An interesting read from Jeff Berlin

[bassybill]

All good stuff. I do get what Jeff is saying and, as I said, I agree with it. But I still think he does on occasion repeat the same message. I hope my saying so doesn't stop him thinking of me as a nice guy.

And now I'm the one repeating myself... doh.

Anyway, it's 1:07 AM here and I just got back fron a nice little local gig, where I played a good solid chunk of those little black notes and I've had a fun time with some great musicians who really understand musical content, so I'm posting this with a big smile on my face.

[Russell L]

I'm not here to doubt Jeff Berlin, or anyone. There are many ways to analyze how to be a successful musician. But then, what is success? That in itself warrants a separate discussion. I don't want to start it here and now, though.

But, let me say this. I understand how being able to read and understand theory can help anyone succeed (I have a degree in theory myself which has helped me at times). However, there are so many musicians out there playing who can't read and who know little, if any, theory. Right now, I am working with three bands in which reading has no bearing. None of the other guys, except one, in all of them can read. It is also a problem for me sometimes in that I can't relate something due to them not understanding theory. BUT...I am being successful at having plenty if gigs, and so are they. So, there is apparently more than one context in which to consider what success means. Am I wrong? I think to those who only want to play for recreation, as in a weekend band, having just a few, or even one or two gigs a month would be considered success. Many non-reading folks are accomplishing that. But, it depends on the individual and what it is that they WANT. Each person sees it differently. Surely there are more weekend warriors who do this, and who cannot read or explain theory, and who also feel satisfied---maybe not all, but many. Granted, pro positions will require those skills more. And even many other part-time gigs. I have played pro and semi-pro. Some of it was reading gigs, some not.

I suppose I could've said it all better by just saying that success is relative to who you're talking to. It's a wonder any teacher can figure out what to say. But, in general, I agree that any musician will be enlightened by learning theory, and that being able to read opens the doors for other gig opportunities. I've certainly played reading gigs, too.

Tip o' the hat to Jeff Berlin, as well as to others for their opinions.

[Rick Robins]

New from from Jeff today:

Last week, my Facebook posts were shared on Talkbass and other bass chat sites and group pages. Thanks to Rick Robins and chrisrusty99 among others for starting up "An Interesting Read from Jeff Berlin!"

Bassy Billy said that I spin the same record over and over and that he hoped that I would talk about something else for a change. As I mentioned, Bassy Billy was the nicest moderator that I knew on Talkbass and his comment should be answered! Bassy Bill wishes that I would write about something else, but I am not sure about what! Let me know what is reasonable to talk about and I will answer your comments tomorrow over here at Facebook. But as far as I can tell, there is little to talk about that can help a player except to guide them to learn well.

If I don't offer thoughts about how people can be guided toward improving their playing, what should I talk about? Without meaningful comments from me, everything from me would be small talk. People are buying DVD’s, or go to teachers, camps, music events, and schools. This shows me that people want to learn, but they’re going about it the wrong way. This means that my comments are still valid I am sorry to say. This is why I spin the same record over and over.

The truth be known, I’m not trying to influence many people with my comments. Most players have already shown me that learning well is not in their plans and so I lost interest in trying to help them. I am actually writing to the minority of people that have an interest in improving as bass players, some of whom claim that they were guided toward the right way of learning from the posts that I write. Thanks to those people who let me know that I helped them out.

On Talkbass, many people there have demonstrated that they are not into knowing how to improve as players. Not everyone, however. I do notice when someone writes of an understanding of my comments and I am pleased to see that they do. Thank you guys! I know that you are there and I am glad that I helped!

I don’t offer specific musical info because I don't know the ability of players to understand the material that I offer. What I offer could be above, or below their capaility. Also, many players are not interested in improving as players. On Talkbass, this is generally the case. Here is one example why this is.

Ed Fuqua is a Talkbass member. Here is quote from him explaining his time attending Berklee! “The boat gig put me in a good enough financial situation to buy an upright and attend Berklee College of Music in Boston. I ended up cutting most of my legit classes to play, though.”

Understand this well! Mr. Fuqua, who is a person that some on Talkbass respect for his musical opinions is stating that he saved money to go to music school, only to cut the classes he paid to attend.

Here is the bottom line for me. If someone took the time to write out a statement years after the fact, that one cut classes that one paid to study, then academic music is not in their interest. Fuqua is far from alone in this belief. This is not bashing of Fuqua. It is quoting his words to show people what he represents. Fuqua reasons, and other similar minded people reason that cutting music classes is OK to do! But how can one give musical advice if one deliberately avoided taking it when they had the opportunity to do so? This is a basis for some of Talkbass' logic in education and people there should be reviewing their thinking in this regard.


If people wish to ask me questions to answer, the best way to reach me is via Facebook. I’d be happy to answer you directly so that I can make clearer the statements that I have made on Facebook. Facebook hosts some of the fairest and nicest bunch of people I ever chatted with on the net. Even my detractors are extremely cool people over here! I like having the chance to answer directly thoughts that some have. Chime in whenever you wish.

Thanks for reading.
Jeff

[Rick Robins]

Also form Jeff in reply to fellow Facebookers:

Jeff Berlin
Nick continued, "My next question is about transcription. Some teachers have told me to write out the solo first then put it on my instrument, others have said I must put it on my instrument first then write it out after. Which is best? Or does it not matter? Is it always necessary to write it out, or can you just learn it on your instrument?"

Jeff answered: If you learn music by ear, then you are learning it the way that every self-taught player has learned music. If you write it out, then this is transcribing and there three great benefits for doing this! 1. You are still using your ear to identify music that is not familiar to you 2. You are putting it to paper which solidifies your understanding of pure academic penmanship and recognition of content to write it down (hence developing you "inner ear") and 3. You will play great music on your instrument that will help you to learn more about your instrument than you presently know. It is a true win-win.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

[brianrost]

Originally Posted by cire113

im so sick of jeff berlins huge ego meh..

It's not bragging if you can back it up

BTW I've never heard a solo album of his that did anything for me, but when I saw him play live with Bruford over 30 years ago he completely blew me away.

Originally Posted by Rick Robins

"My next question is about transcription. Some teachers have told me to write out the solo first then put it on my instrument, others have said I must put it on my instrument first then write it out after. Which is best?"

Some teachers will insist you learn to sing it first, then write it down, then learn it on the instrument. Think about it...

[Ed Fuqua]

Did Jeff happen to quote anything else I talked about in my background? Did he offer anything that I've said that would clarfy whether or not my assessment was about the decisions I made at that time?Did he happen to quote anything else I've said about music education? Has he quoted anything abiout the work I've done with my teacher for the last 14 years?

Or did he pull his usual ******** and decide what he thought was "true" ahead of time and then cherry pick what he wanted to "prove" a point he wanted to make? I mean it's entirely possible that he either hasn't bothered to read anything I've written or is unable to pay attention long enough to make it through it all.

It's kind of funny that he needs to use my name, though...

[bassinplace]

I'm starting to wonder if RickRobin is Jeff Berlin. Antagonizing people with subjective generalizations on a forum from which one has been banned serves no useful purpose for anyone. jm2cents.

[Ed Fuqua]

If anyone is confused about my stance on pursuing musical knowledge, you don't have to take either my word or Jeff's. Don't be lazy, it's all laid out here in posts that I've made.

[Pacman]

Closed for Mod review.

(wouldn't hold your breath, fellas)

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by bassybill

Translation: I'm posting this on TB for Jeff 'cos he can't because he's banned.

And with that, the mods and admins will review whether this is an acceptable practice. Closed until that discussion has had time to take place.

Edit: I see I wasn't the only one who noticed this.