Intervals: Ascending vs Decending

[count_funkula]

I am a little confused about intervals.

Does the fact that the notes involved in a particular interval are different depending on whether or not you are ascending or descending from a particular scale degree confuse anyone else?

Say I'm trying to tell someone how to play a particular tune and I say "starting at the root, play a Major 3rd". Well, in the key of A, a Major 3rd could be a Db or Gb depending how you look at it.

I thought I understood this but now I'm all confused.

[cassanova]

I could be wrong about this, but whether the note is flat or #, depends on the key of the particular piece of music. Sorta based on the circle of fifths I think.

Im sure someone else much more knowledgable will come along tell me Im wrong...lol

[stephanie]

Originally posted by count_funkula
I am a little confused about intervals.

Does the fact that the notes involved in a particular interval are different depending on whether or not you are ascending or descending from a particular scale degree confuse anyone else?

Say I'm trying to tell someone how to play a particular tune and I say "starting at the root, play a Major 3rd". Well, in the key of A, a Major 3rd could be a Db or Gb depending how you look at it.

I thought I understood this but now I'm all confused.

Gard made a great thread about intervals here, you might want to check out:

Intervals

By the way, I think Db to Gb is a perfect 4th, and not a major 3rd. Is that what you mean, tho? If you start at your root, A, your major 3rd would be C# (A to C#) I believe. I would assume in this situation that it would be the same descending, but I'm still studying up on my intervals so please don't go by me.

And, in the Key of A you would usually see the notes as C# and F# (and G#) instead of Db and Gb.

[stephanie]

Originally posted by BUTTSTAR
I could be wrong about this, but whether the note is flat or #, depends on the key of the particular piece of music. Sorta based on the circle of fifths I think.

Going clockwise on the circle of 5ths, for the Key of A (and F#m-its relative minor), you would have sharps. If you go counter-clockwise, in 4ths, you would have flats. One thing to remember, when dealing with key signatures, is not to mix sharps and flats. Ex: With your F#m you wouldn't say Db, Gb, Ab, you would say C#, F#, G#. F#m=Gbm, but I think Gbm is rarely used.

Hope I'm correct on this as well.

[Lipis Roman]

Say I'm trying to tell someone how to play a particular tune and I say "starting at the root, play a Major 3rd". Well, in the key of A, a Major 3rd could be a Db or Gb depending how you look at it.

I think the issue here is the difference between scale degrees and the names of intervals. If you were to say play the root (A) and then "the" Major 3rd of A Major (C#) that is one thing. If you say play the root and then drop down "a" Major 3rd (F) that's different.

Take the C Major scale for instance. Say you're staring on the note E (the 3rd degree of the C Major scale) and then you move up to B. B is the 7th degree of a C Major scale, but the intervalic distance between those two notes E & B would be a Perfect 5th.

I hope that helps to some, not sure if that was exactly what you're having trouble with? Someone should be around to confirm and expand on all of this soon enough.

[count_funkula]

I found the answer I was looking for in one of my books.

Thanks anyway.

[SpeeDFX]

Does anyone know a web site that CLEARLY teaches about intervals?, I'm a super-newbie and I need the easiest explanation possible..I'm already lost when you guys start talking about "major" and in the "key" of...

[JimK]

Originally posted by count_funkula
Well, in the key of A, a Major 3rd could be a Db or Gb depending how you look at it.

Count-
Glad you found the answer.
That said-
In the key of "A", a Major 3rd could NEVER ever be a "Db".
"Count" out on your fingers A-B-C-D...that = 4 fingers, right? How can FOUR = a "3rd"?!

True, "C#" & "Db" sound the same...theoretically, they're 'different'.
I recall arguing with my college professor for about 30 minutes over this same thing! Finally, the light clicked 'on'. What I was doing was-
SEEING the interval on paper.
THINKING what the interval LOOKED like on a bass' neck. By doing this, a minor 3rd & a raised 2nd LOOKED like one-in-the-same.
To me, a raised 2nd was a minor 3rd. DUH!

Anyway-
"C#" is the Major 3rd in "A" Major.
"Db" is a diminished(lowered, flatted) 4th.

Watch those enharmonics!

[count_funkula]

Read you loud and clear JimK. I'm pretty bad about that. Same fret on the bass so I often use whatever name comes to mind. You are right though it is a C#.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by count_funkula
Say I'm trying to tell someone how to play a particular tune and I say "starting at the root, play a Major 3rd". Well, in the key of A, a Major 3rd could be a Db or Gb depending how you look at it.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, considering the majority of answers I've read. Unless you're telling someone to go down, how could a Gb (or F#) be a possibility?

If you say "starting at the root, play a Major 3rd" it's ascending. That's C# (Db).

[count_funkula]

Brad, I was wrong. The distance between A and F# is a Minor 3rd.

F-G-A : Determines the type of interval (3rd)
3 semitones : Determines the quality of interval (minor)


The answer I found in my book that helped me was, intervals are always determined by looking at the "distance" between the lower note and the higher note. I think I understand now. Thanks for all the help.

[JimK]

Originally posted by count_funkula
Brad, I was wrong. The distance between A and F# is a Minor 3rd.

Not again...

"F#" to "A" is a minor 3rd.
"A" to "F# is a Major 6th.

BTW, note how the 3 & 6 add up to 9 & how the Major/minor flip-flops.

Others-
"F#" to "G#" = a Major 2nd
"G#" to "F#" = a minor 7th
2 + 7 =9

"F#" to "C#" = a Perfect 5th
"C#" to "F#" = a Perfect 4th
5 + 4 = 9

[count_funkula]

Doh! Thats what I meant.....really.....F# to A is a Minor 3rd.

[cassanova]

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua
And isn't it fun how the relationships between ascending and descending scale degrees make for such fun in chords -minor6/half diminished - maj6/min7. Fun, fun,fun........

NO

[Phil Smith]

Originally posted by JimK



Not again...

"F#" to "A" is a minor 3rd.
"A" to "F# is a Major 6th.

BTW, note how the 3 & 6 add up to 9 & how the Major/minor flip-flops.

Others-
"F#" to "G#" = a Major 2nd
"G#" to "F#" = a minor 7th
2 + 7 =9

"F#" to "C#" = a Perfect 5th
"C#" to "F#" = a Perfect 4th
5 + 4 = 9

JimK you left out:

F# to F#(octave higher) = Perfect Octave
1 + 8 = 9!

[JimK]

...dammit, Phil!

(I just knew I forget sumthin').

And it is fun!

[Player]

Originally posted by JimK


Watch those enharmonics!

and I was just about to get out my paper plate again