Issues with my bass teacher

Smedz · #1 10-13-2010, 08:17 PM

This is more like a rant but I need some advice too. Well I've had the same bass teacher for about 6 months now. So far all we have covered are rhythms, site reading sheet music and basic scales and chord types. Now what I want to get out of bass lessons is being able to basically create my own music to where it sounds good and it make sense theory wise.

Now unfortunately he keeps giving sheet music to site read every week (and on a side note I guess you can say I have anger issues) and I really cant practice it for more than 15 minutes without becoming extremely infuriated and or breaking things (I know it's a poor habit and immature blah blah blah). So he keeps giving me these damn sheets that I have no will to do and have nothing pertaining to my musical interests.

Recently I got this book he told me to get called "Building walking bass lines" by Ed Friedland and it's no doubt an educational book but we haven't covered to much of it cause we keep spending the entire lesson going over site reading which I have no interest in pursuing no shall I say have a natural talent for.

So basically that's my rant and I'm stuck right now with this bass teacher, I'm not really sure what the point of this was I just needed to vent out my frustration but advice would help on what I should do just in general, I've been lurking this site for awhile and everyone here seems way over my level so any sort of advice for me is really appreciated.

EDIT: Thanks for the helpful replies guys, But I just wanted to add something because I sounded a little arrogant in the post. I like my bass teacher personally, and I think I just really get upset about this because I care too much about what he thinks of me. I think it's about me putting too much pressure on myself to preform well that makes me hate it so much and ultimately discourages me from playing bass all together, aside from this please keep the useful advice coming because I've learned a lot already.

Stick_Player · #2 10-13-2010, 08:20 PM

Why are you stuck with THIS teacher?

Find a teacher that'll teach you what you want.

Quote:

what I want to get out of bass lessons is being able to basically create my own music to where it sounds good and it make sense theory wise

That sounds as if you want a 'composition' teacher.

Smedz · #3 10-13-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

Why are you stuck with THIS teacher?

Find a teacher that'll teach you what you want.

That sounds as if you want a 'composition' teacher.

Well you know I guess that my fault. I'm extremely afraid to tell this guy that I dont want him to be my teacher anymore especially after how long we've been trying to work on this stuff. It just really seems unfair to him and I guess it's just a personal issue I have to work on with myself to muster up the balls.

hdracer · #4 10-13-2010, 08:25 PM

He is teaching you what you want. To do what you want to be able to do, you need to know these things. When you can pick up Ed's book and look at the notes (no tabs in Ed's book) You will be able to achieve what you want. I am working hard on that same book. It is tough. Relax and work with him.

capnsandwich · #5 10-13-2010, 08:26 PM

I'm guessing he's using the Mr. Miyagi method on you by showing you the long, boring theory side of music, wax on/wax off kind of thing, and then one day you'll see how all that theory training and discipline works in the real music world. You'll have plenty of time to work on tricks and chops but it is important that you get this stuff down too if you want to excel at music writing and building good bass lines.

yczi · #6 10-13-2010, 08:29 PM

Not to sound like I'm picking sides or not taking your needs into consideration, from what I've seen and how I've been taught, he's doing everything just right.

When I first learned bass, I already knew how to play piano and had been playing since I was four (I picked up bass on my 18th birthday), so playing bass I naturally wanted to be creative and it was frustrating to feel like I was starting from the beginning. I got a teacher, mainly cause he was already a good friend of mine (he taught my baby brother guitar), and I thought I could always use the advise from an experience person.

The truth is, his job is to teach you the mechanics of the bass, and to drill into your brain how to sight read and connect that information to your instrument, along with learning the role of the bassist in a band setting. He more than likely gave you the book recommendation in hopes that you would explore it yourself and apply the fundamental technique he has given you toward finding logical solutions to the questions and challenges given in the book!

Although what you may be learning directly from him will feel very mechanical and dull, it is the kind of thing that is absorbed into your subconscious, allowing you to grow as a musician. It is something you need to learn well and early before the magic can happen and it can feel less robotic and more artistic.

On a sidenote; breaking things isn't cool. I could never play video games with my brother growing up cause he used to always get frustrated and smash the controller to the ground....breaking it.

Kinda a round-about way of saying 'those who thrive as musicians are team players with a LOT of patience'.

Best of luck!

nothumb · #7 10-13-2010, 08:35 PM

i don't agree that OP needs to learn how to sight read in order to compose music. it doesn't hurt, but sight reading is primarily a performance skill. if OP is interested in learning some other skills or ideas in addition to the theory base, changing the approach somewhat might help him engage the material more.

obviously it depends on the genre he's interested in as well.

but OP, i put a big chunk of this back on you. you have to communicate with your teacher in order to get what you want. You are paying him. Also, there is nothing to stop you from exploring other aspects of bass outside your lessons, learning songs on your own, etc.

Violen · #8 10-13-2010, 08:38 PM

You dont want a teacher, you want a music degree.

First thing you need to get a handle on is your temper. Believe me, i know from experience. When you get frustrated, take a deep breath and take a five minute break and then sit back down and work on the task at hand.

The only person who looses right now when you get upset is you. Your teacher is giving you this stuff because he sees somthing in you that you dont see yet. He sees a really good bass player. If i had someone when i was a teenager who would have sat down and taught me how to read my life would be a lot different right now.

After getting through two music schools, i really feel like reading is the most important thing you can work on right now. It makes everything make sense faster. Reading is right now my biggest thing and i think the most important thing for any educated musician to be able to do.

The theory and the rest will come soon enough. You will learn to write songs and play things you can hear better, but now you gotta learn to read. Please keep working with this guy, he sounds like he's invaluable. Learn to Read Music. It makes life so much easier.

I promise.

bassistloaded21 · #9 10-13-2010, 08:42 PM

You dont need to learn theory and site reading to learn to play. I ended up learning it years after i was already gigging on bass. Theres not a correct way. I know guys who have been playing 3 months and end up learning how to play really good, enough to play out. Theory and site reading and all that is the standard way to teach, but you cant say its the best. I feel like i benefited way more from just actually playing and understanding how the bass fits into the music opposed to learning my notes and what not first. YOu DO NOT need to know how to read to be a pro musician these days. Get a new teacher or youre gonna be left behind.

Smedz · #10 10-13-2010, 08:46 PM

Thanks for the helpful replies guys, But I just wanted to add something because I sounded a little arrogant in the post. I like my bass teacher personally, and I think I just really get upset about this because I care too much about what he thinks of me. I think it's about me putting too much pressure on myself to preform well that makes me hate it so much and ultimately discourages me from playing bass all together, aside from this please keep the useful advice coming because I've learned a lot already.

Roy Vogt · #11 10-13-2010, 08:48 PM

The basic scales and chord types as well as the Walking Lines are just the tools you need to create effective bass lines in any style. The same rules of harmony apply whether you are walking four to the bar or playing a Funk or heavy Rock line.
Work on your lessons a couple of bars at a time-out of time if you are having trouble reading the music. Easy does it-just put it together a section at a time (even if it's one or two notes at a time). Take a break if you're frustrated. If you just keep chipping away it will make sense at some point-the light bulb will go on!

BigOldHarry · #12 10-13-2010, 08:48 PM

While it might be good to get another teacher... I like a teacher pushing sight reading. I know, it's not fun... but if there is *one* skill that separates the pros from the hobbyists, it's sight reading.

waleross · #13 10-13-2010, 08:53 PM

I used to get mad when I was in Music School locked in a practice room with many deadlines to reach.....Now many years later I am getting back to playing the bass (electric only) by studying with a jazz piano/composition teacher going over the same tunes I first studied many years ago. I don't get mad and break my tuner and music stand anymore, I just get tired...but its worth it.....Maybe get another bass teacher at the same time. I had a fellow student that gave me fun lessons, jam lessons......I paid him a little but the encouragement he gave me was worth it and then when I had to play the classical string bass stuff I wasn't as mad and had a better attitude.....Good Luck ......................

Violen · #14 10-13-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

While it might be good to get another teacher... I like a teacher pushing sight reading. I know, it's not fun... but if there is *one* skill that separates the pros from the hobbyists, it's sight reading.

Preach on man!

**bassybill** · #15 10-13-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassistloaded21

YOu DO NOT need to know how to read to be a pro musician these days.

Not being able to read will certainly place severe restrictions on what gigs you get though. That's a big disadvantage for anyone who wants to be a pro.

Smedz · #16 10-13-2010, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassybill

Not being able to read will certainly place severe restrictions on what gigs you get though. That's a big disadvantage for anyone who wants to be a pro.

I'm not necessarily looking to be a solo bassist or a "pro". i'm more along a Punk/Jazz band that's looking to make influential music and add pop elements to it for the hooks. That's why I'm more interested in the basic melody and harmony of music so I can create off that you get what I'm saying?

electracoyote · #17 10-13-2010, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smedz

This is more like a rant but I need some advice too.

Patience is a virtue.

And I don't think you have much patience.

That your teacher started you off with rhythm (and I assume that includes note values and syncopation), scales, chord types, etc., points to a good teacher in my mind.

That your teacher emphasizes sight reading skills is also a good sign.

That you care about your teacher's approval is also a good thing.

I think you need to chill out and be patient with yourself, and not get upset if you miss a note or have a brain fart. The process of formal music education is a slow one. Remember how long it took you to learn how to read and write words? That's a fair analogy for the kind of time and patience it's going to take you to understand formal music and standard notation.

So, either chill and appreciate your current teacher and the opportunity you have, or find another one. But, as a teacher myself with 20 students, I suspect you already have a good one.

If the whole "formal music education" thing is too much for you, there are plenty of hack teachers out there who only teach you TAB and some crap they pull out of the air to seduce you into thinking they know what they're doing.

Joel_bass · #18 10-13-2010, 09:18 PM

I teach reading, but I feel it's more important to develop the ear and feel first. I definitely have my students practice scales and work on theory, but a big part of what i teach revolves around understanding the sound of different scale degrees etc, then when the student starts to dig a little more deeply into sight reading the notes on the page will correspond more to a pitch, or a sound than a position on the fingerboard which I think is more useful.

SMEDZ, the things you are learning are VERY useful, but maybe you could ask your teacher if he would spend some more time on ear training so you can connect what you're learning with what you hear in the music you listen to.

electracoyote · #19 10-13-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel_bass

I teach reading, but I feel it's more important to develop the ear and feel first. I definitely have my students practice scales and work on theory, but a big part of what i teach revolves around understanding the sound of different scale degrees etc, then when the student starts to dig a little more deeply into sight reading the notes on the page will correspond more to a pitch, or a sound than a position on the fingerboard which I think is more useful.

SMEDZ, the things you are learning are VERY useful, but maybe you could ask your teacher if he would spend some more time on ear training so you can connect what you're learning with what you hear in the music you listen to.

Great post, and I agree, it's not all purely academic.

In fact, even though it sounded like I was slagging TAB, I use it as part of my lessons. We pull our noses out of the book and LISTEN, trying to capture a bassline with our ears. I encourage my students to hear it and feel the rhythm, and I will offer up a little TAB (usually something beyond what they are prepared to sight read).

**bassybill** · #20 10-13-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smedz

I'm not necessarily looking to be a solo bassist or a "pro". i'm more along a Punk/Jazz band that's looking to make influential music and add pop elements to it for the hooks. That's why I'm more interested in the basic melody and harmony of music so I can create off that you get what I'm saying?

I was just responding to the comment I quoted. But while I'm on...

First off, relax with the anger issues if you can. It will help, believe me. Trying to "run before you can walk" is very frustrating.

Second, I think the advice given above about varying your learning is good. Why not spend maybe 20 minutes a day or whatever on your scales and reading exercises, then another chunk of time learning in what you consider a fun way? Like maybe trying to pick up bass lines from some of your favourite tunes, or picking up a trick here and there from Youtube vids, et cetera.

Try keeping a diary of what you learn each day, this can really motivate students in my experience. And remember that if playing music was easy and could be learned by anybody in one week it would bore you to tears after three. But there's enough to learn to keep you absorbed for a lifetime.

Good luck, smile and enjoy your music for years to come.